News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[mattblack]

Again though, if the state govt Invests in development of these transmission lines, how do they recoup or benefit moving forward. Is there a charge for electricity glowing through these lines back to the government??

[Jaymz]

Again though, if the state govt Invests in development of these transmission lines, how do they recoup or benefit moving forward. Is there a charge for electricity glowing through these lines back to the government??

I'm not sure if the Govt. would recoup money directly via a fee or levy as such. I've always assumed they take the bigger picture mentality.... as in by providing the right infrastructure they grow the economy in the medium to long term. Encourage industry to expand or even set up shop, emply more people, grow the tax base etc etc. In the case of the new interconnector for instance, it should hopefully encourage more investment in renewables in SA. That electricity can be exported to the east coast.

[SBD]

Again though, if the state govt Invests in development of these transmission lines, how do they recoup or benefit moving forward. Is there a charge for electricity glowing through these lines back to the government??

I'm not sure if the Govt. would recoup money directly via a fee or levy as such. I've always assumed they take the bigger picture mentality.... as in by providing the right infrastructure they grow the economy in the medium to long term. Encourage industry to expand or even set up shop, emply more people, grow the tax base etc etc. In the case of the new interconnector for instance, it should hopefully encourage more investment in renewables in SA. That electricity can be exported to the east coast.

It's not clear to me at all how the retail Supply Charge is distributed including to both distribution (SAPN) and transmission (Electranet) "poles and wires" (and transformers, SynCons etc). Some transmission lines are privately owned/operated now (eg Riverlink between Berri and Mildura), so there must be a pricing model of some kind.

Many new renewable electricity projects in South Australia are constructed "close" to existing network points. Most of the "big batteries" are built next to Electranet substations (Templers, Blyth, Torrens Island etc), and solar farms are often close too (SA Water put a solar farm bigger than it needs next to every pump station that already had a supply connection). The proposed Solar Thermal thing north of Port Augusta is next to the transmission line to Leigh Creek and/or Olympic Dam, so will only need a substation. The proposed Alinta battery at Reeves Plains is on a site previously proposed for a gas power station, where a gas pipeline from Moomba passes under a 275kV transmission line. Again, it will need a switchyard and connection, but at most a few hundred metres of transmission line. The Palmer Wind Farm will be close to Tungkillo substation on line to the main Victoria interconnector.

[Algernon]

Again though, if the state govt Invests in development of these transmission lines, how do they recoup or benefit moving forward. Is there a charge for electricity glowing through these lines back to the government??

I'm not sure if the Govt. would recoup money directly via a fee or levy as such. I've always assumed they take the bigger picture mentality.... as in by providing the right infrastructure they grow the economy in the medium to long term. Encourage industry to expand or even set up shop, emply more people, grow the tax base etc etc. In the case of the new interconnector for instance, it should hopefully encourage more investment in renewables in SA. That electricity can be exported to the east coast.

It's not clear to me at all how the retail Supply Charge is distributed including to both distribution (SAPN) and transmission (Electranet) "poles and wires" (and transformers, SynCons etc). Some transmission lines are privately owned/operated now (eg Riverlink between Berri and Mildura), so there must be a pricing model of some kind.

Many new renewable electricity projects in South Australia are constructed "close" to existing network points. Most of the "big batteries" are built next to Electranet substations (Templers, Blyth, Torrens Island etc), and solar farms are often close too (SA Water put a solar farm bigger than it needs next to every pump station that already had a supply connection). The proposed Solar Thermal thing north of Port Augusta is next to the transmission line to Leigh Creek and/or Olympic Dam, so will only need a substation. The proposed Alinta battery at Reeves Plains is on a site previously proposed for a gas power station, where a gas pipeline from Moomba passes under a 275kV transmission line. Again, it will need a switchyard and connection, but at most a few hundred metres of transmission line. The Palmer Wind Farm will be close to Tungkillo substation on line to the main Victoria interconnector.

This is no different to any other resource. The size and quality of the resource is only part of the equation but also its proximity to infrastructure.

You could have SA supplying a huge chunk of NSW/victoria's peak demand with solar by building along the WA border - but there's nothing out there to connect to.

[abc]

South Australia embarrassed nationwide as lights go out at Adelaide Oval

“Venue management are working to determine the cause of the issue with the lights tonight. We will update when they provide further information,” it said.

South Australian Labor MP Tom Koutsantonis denied the outage was connected to the state’s notoriously patchy power supply.

a denial...we still have no cause

[PD2/20]

South Australia embarrassed nationwide as lights go out at Adelaide Oval

“Venue management are working to determine the cause of the issue with the lights tonight. We will update when they provide further information,” it said.

South Australian Labor MP Tom Koutsantonis denied the outage was connected to the state’s notoriously patchy power supply.

a denial...we still have no cause

Although a photo on the ABC website showing the scoreboard and advertising displays illuminated suggests that the issue was confined to the lighting system!

[mattblack]

South Australia embarrassed nationwide as lights go out at Adelaide Oval

“Venue management are working to determine the cause of the issue with the lights tonight. We will update when they provide further information,” it said.

South Australian Labor MP Tom Koutsantonis denied the outage was connected to the state’s notoriously patchy power supply.

a denial...we still have no cause

Don't miss an opportunity even as ill informed it is. What is the matter with you???

Obvious by everyone that this was an isolated issue though I'm sure you want to blame renewables

Every commentator and player (Kohli saying Adelaide is his favourite overseas venue to hundreds of millions of Indian viewers) raves about the venue and atmosphere.

You must be steaming

[rubberman]

"...the state’s notoriously patchy power supply..."

Now, I'll bet that opinion's not linked to any factual report.

Now, if we look at the AEMO 'Update to 2022 Electricity Statement of Opportunities'. Fig 1. Oh look! SA isn't the least reliable. Nor the second least reliable.

If the media want to talk SA down without the facts to back them up, no wonder people are switching to social media.

[rev]

It wasn't even a technical issue or fault, someone hit the wrong switch because they wanted to turn the lights on in the practice nets for an Australian player.
As if this big of a deal has been made about it anyway. Talk about a sad country town mentality.

[mattblack]

"...the state’s notoriously patchy power supply..."

Now, I'll bet that opinion's not linked to any factual report.

Now, if we look at the AEMO 'Update to 2022 Electricity Statement of Opportunities'. Fig 1. Oh look! SA isn't the least reliable. Nor the second least reliable.

If the media want to talk SA down without the facts to back them up, no wonder people are switching to social media.

Actually, the most reliable according to some. Quite a turnaround.

South Australia has the most wind and solar and no baseload: So why is it the only state not fretting about a vulnerable grid?

AEMO’s 2024 System Strength Report, published earlier this week, find that there are potential shortfalls in system strength in all of the states that make up the country’s main grid, known as the National Electricity Market. The one exception is South Australia.

“All regions except South Australia are expected to experience system strength shortfalls over the
next three years unless adequate investment or services are provided,” the report says.


The reason is relatively simple. South Australia closed the last of its coal fired generators in 2016, and despite having a number of gas generators these are largely “peaking plants” that operate rarely, or “intermediate” that operate part time. There is no baseload power left in the state.

That has not affected its energy reliability (despite what some pundits have been claiming), and nor has it affected its energy security. AEMO and the local network owners have already taken action to install four synchronous condensers – spinning machines that do not burn fuel – and which have addressed the issue.

In time, battery storage may also be able to provide that service with their advanced “grid forming” inverters.

Other states, however, are still grappling with the accelerating pace and scale and urgency of the energy transition from centralised fossil fuel generators to distributed wind, solar and storage.

The NSW government decision to pay Origin Energy up to $450 million to keep the country’s biggest coal generator at Eraring open for another two years has effectively deferred its emerging system strength shortfall to 2027. But it will still have to address those issues should Origin close as planned in that year.

The main transmission company in the state is Transgrid, and it is currently assessing options to fill that shortfall – and will likely do so with a mix of syncons and big batteries with advance grid-forming inveters.

Ironically, the decision to keep Eraring open has caused problems for Queensland. That’s because – with Eraring generating – coal plants in Queensland will be operating less often.

“These shortfalls (in Queensland)n are primarily linked with decreased energy exports to New South Wales, with more energy available in that region following the delayed retirement of Eraring Power Station,” AEMO says.

“That change has resulted in fewer thermal units expected to be online economically in Queensland, and lower fault levels than previously projected.” Queensland’s Powerlink is now going through an accelerated process to fill those gaps, much in the same way as Transgrid.

Victoria is also forecast to have a system strength shortfall in 2025/26, largely the result of the expiry of existing contracts. These will be addressed either with new contracts, or at leat partially by a new syncon that has been announced by the state government this week to support its roll out of renewables.

Even Tasmania, which generates most of its power from hydro, faces multiple shortfalls at all four its network nodes, and the local transmission company is also working to provide solutions.

Of course, these are not predictions that the lights will go out – any more than AEMO’s regular lack of reserve notices, or electricity statement of opportunities are. They are simply identifying where gaps are likely to emerge and ensuring that action is take to fill it.

But the work has already been done in South Australia – underlying why it is now regarded as one of the most secure and reliable grids in the country. Just like another renewable energy powerhouse Germany, where the reliability factor is at 99.997 per cent.

Grids that depend on wind and solar may be dealing with variable power supplies, but they are largely predictable. Sudden trips of large centralised generators are not predictable, and that – as AEMO has made clear on repeated occasions – is what it fears most.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/south-austr ... able-grid/

[mattblack]

It wasn't even a technical issue or fault, someone hit the wrong switch because they wanted to turn the lights on in the practice nets for an Australian player.
As if this big of a deal has been made about it anyway. Talk about a sad country town mentality.

Not small town mentality, just small mindedness.

[Algernon]

Wouldn't have happened to a nuclear powered adelaide oval who's with me fellas

[abc]

"...the state’s notoriously patchy power supply..."

Now, I'll bet that opinion's not linked to any factual report.

Now, if we look at the AEMO 'Update to 2022 Electricity Statement of Opportunities'. Fig 1. Oh look! SA isn't the least reliable. Nor the second least reliable.

If the media want to talk SA down without the facts to back them up, no wonder people are switching to social media.

social media is notorious for misinformation

[rubberman]

"...the state’s notoriously patchy power supply..."

Now, I'll bet that opinion's not linked to any factual report.

Now, if we look at the AEMO 'Update to 2022 Electricity Statement of Opportunities'. Fig 1. Oh look! SA isn't the least reliable. Nor the second least reliable.

If the media want to talk SA down without the facts to back them up, no wonder people are switching to social media.

social media is notorious for misinformation

Absolutely!

Which makes the point about how absolutely pathetic the mainstream media is when it's no more credible than social media.

[abc]

"...the state’s notoriously patchy power supply..."

Now, I'll bet that opinion's not linked to any factual report.

Now, if we look at the AEMO 'Update to 2022 Electricity Statement of Opportunities'. Fig 1. Oh look! SA isn't the least reliable. Nor the second least reliable.

If the media want to talk SA down without the facts to back them up, no wonder people are switching to social media.

social media is notorious for misinformation

Absolutely!

Which makes the point about how absolutely pathetic the mainstream media is when it's no more credible than social media.

mainstream media is always reliable because of journalistic integrity and ethics