News & Discussion: Electricity Infrastructure

[PeFe]

Record renewable power generation in South Australia today.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-and-so ... -heatwave/

[rev]

Record renewable power generation in South Australia today.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-and-so ... -heatwave/

And record high costs to households and businesses too.

[PeFe]

Record renewable power generation in South Australia today.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-and-so ... -heatwave/

And record high costs to households and businesses too.

Source?

The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia

https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified

[rev]

Record renewable power generation in South Australia today.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/wind-and-so ... -heatwave/

And record high costs to households and businesses too.

Source?

The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia

Screenshot_20241216-232845~2.png

https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified

Do consumers pay wholesale prices?

[PeFe]

And record high costs to households and businesses too.

Source?

The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia

Screenshot_20241216-232845~2.png

https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified

Do consumers pay wholesale prices?

No of course but they are the basis of electricity prices. The formula to get to retail is a lot more complicated.

"Record high costs"....
Source?

[rubberman]

Source?

The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia

Screenshot_20241216-232845~2.png

https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified

Do consumers pay wholesale prices?

No of course but they are the basis of electricity prices. The formula to get to retail is a lot more complicated.

"Record high costs"....
Source?

There was a recent article in the Age which broke down the various components of power costs. The cost of generation was not the largest part. Somewhere near a third.

Of course, that makes claims that renewables are to blame for high prices somewhat laughable. If prices are high, people need to look at the other two thirds of the price for reasons as well. But given that the wholesale prices for renewables are lower than fossil fuels, it's simply ridiculous to blame them for high prices.

[rev]

Source?

The last 24 hours of wholesale electricity prices in South Australia

Screenshot_20241216-232845~2.png

https://explore.openelectricity.org.au/ ... Simplified

Do consumers pay wholesale prices?

No of course but they are the basis of electricity prices. The formula to get to retail is a lot more complicated.

"Record high costs"....
Source?

It's well established we have some of the highest power prices in the country.

[rubberman]

Do consumers pay wholesale prices?

No of course but they are the basis of electricity prices. The formula to get to retail is a lot more complicated.

"Record high costs"....
Source?

It's well established we have some of the highest power prices in the country.

It's also well established that we have wholesale prices that aren't the highest in the country.

So, logically, if final prices are the highest, and wholesale prices are not, then it's the profit, admin, transmission charges that are higher.

However, all of those are controlled by private companies.

I can understand the frustration of people being charged excessive prices for profits, admin and transmission, but that's what happens when public assets are sold. Voters no longer control prices...or at least in principle, should not under a capitalist system.

[rev]

No of course but they are the basis of electricity prices. The formula to get to retail is a lot more complicated.

"Record high costs"....
Source?

It's well established we have some of the highest power prices in the country.

It's also well established that we have wholesale prices that aren't the highest in the country.

So, logically, if final prices are the highest, and wholesale prices are not, then it's the profit, admin, transmission charges that are higher.

However, all of those are controlled by private companies.

I can understand the frustration of people being charged excessive prices for profits, admin and transmission, but that's what happens when public assets are sold. Voters no longer control prices...or at least in principle, should not under a capitalist system.

So a simple issue of consumers being rorted by power companies?

[rubberman]

It's well established we have some of the highest power prices in the country.

It's also well established that we have wholesale prices that aren't the highest in the country.

So, logically, if final prices are the highest, and wholesale prices are not, then it's the profit, admin, transmission charges that are higher.

However, all of those are controlled by private companies.

I can understand the frustration of people being charged excessive prices for profits, admin and transmission, but that's what happens when public assets are sold. Voters no longer control prices...or at least in principle, should not under a capitalist system.

So a simple issue of consumers being rorted by power companies?

What other conclusion is possible? If it is mathematically true AND that private companies are required to maximise shareholder value, what other conclusion is more likely?

If a private company can charge more for its product, why wouldn't it? Why should a private company care about struggling families more than its shareholders when it's got a duty to those shareholders?

Isn't this obvious?

[SRW]

Do consumers pay wholesale prices?

No of course but they are the basis of electricity prices. The formula to get to retail is a lot more complicated.

"Record high costs"....
Source?

There was a recent article in the Age which broke down the various components of power costs. The cost of generation was not the largest part. Somewhere near a third.

Of course, that makes claims that renewables are to blame for high prices somewhat laughable. If prices are high, people need to look at the other two thirds of the price for reasons as well. But given that the wholesale prices for renewables are lower than fossil fuels, it's simply ridiculous to blame them for high prices.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-eco ... 5kyh7.html

[SBD]

Exactly. Each of those require transmission line upgrading. They should be paid for by the promoters in the case of the solar farms and mine. In which case, why would that increase power bills for domestic consumers?

As for the line to Wudinna, if it needs upgrading, what's that got to do with renewables? If there's more demand, or it's falling apart, then it's going to have to be replaced anyway: renewables, or coal, or gas, or nuclear, make no difference.

It's remarkably frustrating when people start saying renewables are going to cost huge amounts of money, and then every example brought up is either very small, or something totally unrelated to renewables, or something with a much cheaper fix than proposed.

When you say "promoters" I assume you mean that large industrial users should pay for or contribute to the transmission lines themselves? Fair enough- but historically, when the state wanted to attract heavy industry, the state paid for the energy infrastructure. It seems to be your position that renewables do not require large upgrades and new transmission infrastructure and this appears to be at odds with what is actually being planned.

If someone wants to build a bunch of solar panels at Woop Woop, who else should pay for them to connect to the network? Further, anyone building subdivision development must pay for infrastructure connection. This is pretty standard.

Well, yes. Transmission companies are proposing to spend a lot of money, and then charge us. So, should we just accept it? If we do, then let's not then start whinging about electricity prices.

As an aside, a few mainstream media outlets have published analyses of power prices. Funnily enough, profits are about 2.5 times the cost of actual generation. So much for people blaming renewables.

I believe that the recent upgrade/replacement of the power line to Olympic Dam is owned by BHP. Solar generators along the route have to pay for access. in contrast, the upgraded line down the east coast of Eyre Peninsula was funded by SAPN/state government to maintain reliable supply to Port Lincoln, and a side benefit is that it will allow more wind farm on southern Eyre Peninsula.

I'd expect that a new iron mine would be asked to throw in a large chunk of money for any required upgrades, the same as a farmer pays for extension/upgrade of the grid to provide more electricity to their farm. Sometimes, that cost is enough to stop the upgrade.

[abc]

Australia's future under net zero

[PeFe]

Australia's future under net zero

What the hell is that? A graph suggesting Germany would face a energy shortage impacting economic performance sometime in the future???? Is that what it's meant to be??

And how is this relevant to Australia?
And even more importantly how is it relevant to South Australia?

Here is something to think about...I have posted this before so it's an oldie...but a goldie...

South Australia, 2002, 100% fossil fuel driven economy, 7% unemployment

South Australia, 2024, 72% renewable driven economy, 3.9% unemployment

[abc]

Australia's future under net zero

What the hell is that? A graph suggesting Germany would face a energy shortage impacting economic performance sometime in the future???? Is that what it's meant to be??

And how is this relevant to Australia?
And even more importantly how is it relevant to South Australia?

Here is something to think about...I have posted this before so it's an oldie...but a goldie...

South Australia, 2002, 100% fossil fuel driven economy, 7% unemployment

South Australia, 2024, 72% renewable driven economy, 3.9% unemployment

comprehension lesson:

no its a historical graph of what has actually occurred in Germany as a portent to the future of Australia

the economy is in freefall due to adherence to the same energy policies that Australia is now implementing