News & Discussion: Trams

[rubberman]

I understand slope was an issue for any turning radius from North Terrace West to KWS North, but we could have benefited from a right turn from KWS South to North Terrace East and also a right turn from North Terrace East to KWS North - given both already have left turns. It would only have cost an extra couple million (at the time).

The infamous right turn was borderline impossible.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-11-18/ ... s/10508610

There are a number of factual errors in that report. (eg Citadis are not 50% of the fleet).

It quoted the cost of new trams as an extra cost, whereas if a City Loop were built, those extra trams are needed anyway. It would be inconvenient not to be able to use Citadis for a 'right turn', but hardly a show stopper.

Additionally, the consultant chose to cost the most expensive option for reworking the intersection. Other cities have worked out how to do it in much more confined spaces.

There are two real reasons. The first is that the right turn would have introduced an extra delay at what is Adelaide’s busiest intersection. That was no problem in the old tram system, because traffic along North Terrace was far less busy. Today, it would be difficult. The second real reason was that the Liberals really weren't interested, and this was a good way to dump the trams to fund their new stadium in the Parklands.

Of course, that was peak stupidity. There was zero support for a stadium there, plus building in the Parklands is a sure vote loser in the Seat of Adelaide. Actually building the tram loop and being able to open it close to the election may well have given the Liberals a second term. They certainly lost their Adelaide MP.

[Waewick]

If Labor were serious about Trams, which I am not sure they are

They would take a concrete plan to this election, they aren't losing at least the next two, so just get it in and get it started and take what would be at worst a smaller win%

Just make it Norwood after the ring route

[Jaymz]

If Labor were serious about Trams, which I am not sure they are

They would take a concrete plan to this election, they aren't losing at least the next two, so just get it in and get it started and take what would be at worst a smaller win%

Just make it Norwood after the ring route

I don't think they will. They've already publicly said that the current massive infrastructure spend (WCH and North/South tunnels) will be the last big ticket items for quite some time. Those two projects alone will push S.A towards the top of the debt to GDP ratios for the states, maybe even second to Victoria.

I think even the current starry-eyed public would get a bit irate if they started promising very expensive tram systems, as nice as they would be.

[Waewick]

If Labor were serious about Trams, which I am not sure they are

They would take a concrete plan to this election, they aren't losing at least the next two, so just get it in and get it started and take what would be at worst a smaller win%

Just make it Norwood after the ring route

I don't think they will. They've already publicly said that the current massive infrastructure spend (WCH and North/South tunnels) will be the last big ticket items for quite some time. Those two projects alone will push S.A towards the top of the debt to GDP ratios for the states, maybe even second to Victoria.

I think even the current starry-eyed public would get a bit irate if they started promising very expensive tram systems, as nice as they would be.

Thats true too.

We are going to need federal assistance for any options and this election coming up isn't going to be about Trams.

[rev]

If Labor were serious about Trams, which I am not sure they are

They would take a concrete plan to this election, they aren't losing at least the next two, so just get it in and get it started and take what would be at worst a smaller win%

Just make it Norwood after the ring route

I reckon they're serious about trams, but the timing isn't right politically.
The NWCH may go over budget and behind schedule, the last big section of the NSM that they delivered came in under budget so they extended it under Torrens Road from memory although the remainder has a high probability of going behind schedule/over budget given the complexities of tunneling and that it's the first time such technology is used in Adelaide..
So announcing billions for trams while two multi-billion dollar projects are falling behind schedule or going over budget is political suicide.

[rubberman]

If Labor were serious about Trams, which I am not sure they are

They would take a concrete plan to this election, they aren't losing at least the next two, so just get it in and get it started and take what would be at worst a smaller win%

Just make it Norwood after the ring route

From a political perspective, the ALP offered a good deal for trams in 2018. The public didn't vote for them. Additionally, the ALP had spent ovef $2.5bn on various rail projects. Despite a huge established infrastructure spend, they lost. Why would the ALP spend a lot of money now on something that the people of SA didn't really appreciate? Especially as that same public did want money to be thrown at ramping and South Road.

Heck, how many people here actually changed their vote to Labor in 2018?

The only political reason for the ALP to revive the tram proposal is for one of two things: either a huge public demand, or a cliff hanger election so close that trams might edge them over the line.

Other than that, nope. The ALP could spend a couple of billion, and then watch Sky'news', the AFR, Australian, and the Advertiser scream Debt and Deficit!!!...and there'd be people here agreeing with them too.

So now, my prediction. The ALP will likely bring this up again if and when an upcoming election looks close. Given the state of the Opposition, that's unlikely in 2026. However, 2030 or 2034 are possibilities. Spread out over several elections: Adelink, then four more extensions, one per election, might see a full system by 2045...at the earliest.

[Spotto]

If Labor were serious about Trams, which I am not sure they are

They would take a concrete plan to this election, they aren't losing at least the next two, so just get it in and get it started and take what would be at worst a smaller win%

Just make it Norwood after the ring route

I reckon they're serious about trams, but the timing isn't right politically.
The NWCH may go over budget and behind schedule, the last big section of the NSM that they delivered came in under budget so they extended it under Torrens Road from memory although the remainder has a high probability of going behind schedule/over budget given the complexities of tunneling and that it's the first time such technology is used in Adelaide..
So announcing billions for trams while two multi-billion dollar projects are falling behind schedule or going over budget is political suicide.

What baffles me though is that a new tram stop outside of the NWCH isn’t an automatic given. A brand new development that will become a destination, trams right there on Port Road, but zero word.

[abc]

I believe the tram extension down KW street and beyond was done for tourists. To give the town a bit of character, activity and 'bustle'.
It was never intended to improve the PT situation or ease of movement.

[rev]

If Labor were serious about Trams, which I am not sure they are

They would take a concrete plan to this election, they aren't losing at least the next two, so just get it in and get it started and take what would be at worst a smaller win%

Just make it Norwood after the ring route

I reckon they're serious about trams, but the timing isn't right politically.
The NWCH may go over budget and behind schedule, the last big section of the NSM that they delivered came in under budget so they extended it under Torrens Road from memory although the remainder has a high probability of going behind schedule/over budget given the complexities of tunneling and that it's the first time such technology is used in Adelaide..
So announcing billions for trams while two multi-billion dollar projects are falling behind schedule or going over budget is political suicide.

What baffles me though is that a new tram stop outside of the NWCH isn’t an automatic given. A brand new development that will become a destination, trams right there on Port Road, but zero word.

Still quite a few years before the hospitals finished though.
With the brewery site being turned into housing in the near future I think it would be a good opportunity for them to move the Bonython Park stop further north so it's closer, move the Thebarton stop a little north as well and then build a new stop for the WCH.

[[Shuz]]

For the umpteenth time,

There will be a new tram stop at Gaol Road for the WCH.

[Waewick]

If Labor were serious about Trams, which I am not sure they are

They would take a concrete plan to this election, they aren't losing at least the next two, so just get it in and get it started and take what would be at worst a smaller win%

Just make it Norwood after the ring route

From a political perspective, the ALP offered a good deal for trams in 2018. The public didn't vote for them. Additionally, the ALP had spent ovef $2.5bn on various rail projects. Despite a huge established infrastructure spend, they lost. Why would the ALP spend a lot of money now on something that the people of SA didn't really appreciate? Especially as that same public did want money to be thrown at ramping and South Road.

Heck, how many people here actually changed their vote to Labor in 2018?

The only political reason for the ALP to revive the tram proposal is for one of two things: either a huge public demand, or a cliff hanger election so close that trams might edge them over the line.

Other than that, nope. The ALP could spend a couple of billion, and then watch Sky'news', the AFR, Australian, and the Advertiser scream Debt and Deficit!!!...and there'd be people here agreeing with them too.

So now, my prediction. The ALP will likely bring this up again if and when an upcoming election looks close. Given the state of the Opposition, that's unlikely in 2026. However, 2030 or 2034 are possibilities. Spread out over several elections: Adelink, then four more extensions, one per election, might see a full system by 2045...at the earliest.

Absolutely understand in 2018 it didn't go well, but I think we can all acknowledge that it wasn't exactly concrete plans.

I'm talking about taking actual concrete plans - for example, the city loop. I think that would be better accepted by voters.

I understand they have spent money on the Port Adelaide extension, but personally I see that as purely vote buying or pork barreling and wasn't the best use the funds. (Just my opinion of course, others can disagree)

But we have had all the other upgrades too so there is that.

But yes, the North South corridor is going to be the focus, one can have some hope though!

[EBG]

Norwwod does not want trams, in a survey 2 years ago, they voted to save the inappropriate gums trees that are heaving up the centre lanes closest to the traffic isalnds instaed.

[Waewick]

Norwwod does not want trams, in a survey 2 years ago, they voted to save the inappropriate gums trees that are heaving up the centre lanes closest to the traffic isalnds instaed.

I have been told, from a reasonable source in the council, that many of those trees are close to their lifespan.

Hopefully with that and the density increase in the area may see a change in attitude

And to be honest, I want the Govt to just do it and not succumb to NIMBYs

[ChillyPhilly]

Those trees are horrible in every way.

[Waewick]

Those trees are horrible in every way.

The damage to the road on the western portion of the parade should be enough to have them removed if we were sane