News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[UrbanSG]

Given the government's current track record I would suggest an announcement in next year's State Budget but that is for electrification in about 5 or so years from 2008. That would match other big projects like the Marj and the desal plant. We here about them as though they are about to occur next year when in reality they are about a decade away I am all for planning for the future but some of these projects need to occur now!

[Will409]

I don't want to put a dampener on everything because I want to see electrification here as much as the next bloke but some history of electrification in SA doesn't make for the best bed time reading. It was first proposed back in the early years of the 20th century. It was once again brough to attention during the 'Webb era' of the 1920s. Later on in the mid 1950s, there was a Royal Commission into electrification of the suburban network which pretty much covered most of the present system although a couple of lines mentioned (such as the Dry Creek - Northfield line) have since been closed. Needless to say, the famous 'Redhen' railcars were built instead. Some of the trailer cars that were used (the 860 class) were originally built with electric use in mind.

Perhaps the saddest tale of electrification in Adelaide occured still later on in the 1970s when work had progressed to the point where stanchions had actually been ordered and delivered to Islington Workshops. However, after a few months in storage, they were scrapped. We got 'that' close to having overhead wires in Adelaide.

After seeing what a modern electric system is like in Melbourne, I really want to see electrification happen here but sadly, history is very much against us.

[AG]

I don't think we should be using the past to determine what will happen in the future. The current Government has been okay at delivering some major infrastructure projects compared to previous governments, but there is still some works it should commit to which it has been hovering around for years, electrification included.

[SRW]

We here about them as though they are about to occur next year when in reality they are about a decade away I am all for planning for the future but some of these projects need to occur now!

Very true. Although projects such as this will by their nature take a quite a long time to complete, allowing as they must for continuing public use of the system during upgrades and the lengthy manufacture period for the new rolling-stock with which to operate it. So, as you say, the ball really needs to get rolling now.

Anyway, for reference (especially for those of us playing from interstate and overseas), I've pulled the article AG mentioned in his opening post from Factiva:

Rail upgrade unlikely to be private, public deal
MICHAEL OWEN, POLITICAL REPORTER
363 words
26 December 2007
The Advertiser

ELECTRIFICATION of Adelaide's ageing rail system is unlikely to be financed under a public-private partnership funding model, Acting Premier Kevin Foley says.

The State Government already has announced major infrastructure projects, including the new Marjorie-Jackson Nelson Hospital, prisons and schools, will be built in partnership with the private sector.

Building a desalination plant for Adelaide under a PPP also remains a strong possibility, although the Government is yet to make a final decision on the funding model for that project.

But despite the national trend under federal and state Labor governments to the PPP option, the Government is doubtful its next major infrastructure project - a $1.5 billion rail upgrade - will be under a PPP.

While the Government is yet to commit itself to a time frame for electrification of the diesel rail network, it has consistently declared such an undertaking will happen ``in the future''.

A concrete re-sleepering program announced in this year's State Budget was held as the ``first step'' in electrification. But despite New South Wales considering a PPP deal to buy $3.5 billion of new rail rolling stock, Mr Foley said SA was unlikely to go down a similar path.

``You have to evaluate if there's value in it and are they services that can be neatly transferred to the private sector for operation or are they services that are better maintained and operated by government,'' he said.

``It really goes down to what is the service that's being delivered as against the nature of the infrastructure.

``The private sector would like to get into most space when it comes to government infrastructure, but on the side of the rail system, I don't know.

``It would depend on the nature of the work we're wanting done as to whether the private sector would be able to be in that space and, I guess, the answer is probably not.''

Opposition transport spokesman Duncan McFetridge called on the Government to announce its intentions and commit to a time frame to electrify the network.

Just on the PPP issue, I agree with Foley that it wouldn't be a good funding method for actual electrification, track and rolling-stock upgrades, but I wonder if it might work for upgrades to railway stations. It would probably only be feasible (profit-wise) for a few stations (like Brighton, Noarlunga, perhaps even Goodwood), but such partnerships could potentially become quite large, transit-oriented developments, including adjacent mid-density residential, if the motivation is there.

[jk1237]

Does anyone know how much of the supposed $1.5 billion for electrification is for the actual poles/wires and how much would be for the trains. The figure cant possibly be for the poles/wires alone - each pole would be worth $5 million each at that rate. Im assuming it takes into account brand new trains
South Australia spending 1.5 billion on suburban rail - unfortunately I just cant see it ever happening, ever. I hope Im wrong

[AG]

The PPP model of funding for railway station upgrades has worked quite well over in Melbourne and Sydney. At the moment, I believe the currently under construction Chatswood Interchange is being undertaken using this model, possibly the largest PPP for a single railway station upgrade ever undertaken in Australia, which is to feature a shopping complex and several apartment towers (the tallest in suburban Sydney over 150m high) alongside the upgraded station. I am not sure about the Box Hill upgrade in Melbourne which occurred during the early 80s, but I suspect that this was also undertaken with a PPP, since the railway lines were sunk, the station rebuilt, and a shopping centre currently owned by Centro constructed above the station. This sort of deal also encourages the use of those railway stations since they tend to become easily accessible to any development that occurs on the air space above and around the railway tracks.

Goodwood has a lot of potential for an upgrade under a PPP deal IMO, because it is located on a junction between 2 major train lines, and potential a tram line as well if integrated as part of an interchange at Goodwood, and is also quite close to the city. Other stations that might be suitable could be Mawson Lakes, Brighton, Oaklands and Salisbury, and an upgrade of Woodville or Cheltenham stations could be integrated in with the future redevelopment of Cheltenham Racecourse.

[Norman]

Well, at Mawson Lakes they ARE building multi-story buildings all around the station, just look what's there already.

[Wilfy 2007]

We here about them as though they are about to occur next year when in reality they are about a decade away I am all for planning for the future but some of these projects need to occur now!

Very true. Although projects such as this will by their nature take a quite a long time to complete, allowing as they must for continuing public use of the system during upgrades and the lengthy manufacture period for the new rolling-stock with which to operate it. So, as you say, the ball really needs to get rolling now.

Anyway, for reference (especially for those of us playing from interstate and overseas), I've pulled the article AG mentioned in his opening post from Factiva:

Rail upgrade unlikely to be private, public deal
MICHAEL OWEN, POLITICAL REPORTER
363 words
26 December 2007
The Advertiser

ELECTRIFICATION of Adelaide's ageing rail system is unlikely to be financed under a public-private partnership funding model, Acting Premier Kevin Foley says.

The State Government already has announced major infrastructure projects, including the new Marjorie-Jackson Nelson Hospital, prisons and schools, will be built in partnership with the private sector.

Building a desalination plant for Adelaide under a PPP also remains a strong possibility, although the Government is yet to make a final decision on the funding model for that project.

But despite the national trend under federal and state Labor governments to the PPP option, the Government is doubtful its next major infrastructure project - a $1.5 billion rail upgrade - will be under a PPP.

While the Government is yet to commit itself to a time frame for electrification of the diesel rail network, it has consistently declared such an undertaking will happen ``in the future''.

A concrete re-sleepering program announced in this year's State Budget was held as the ``first step'' in electrification. But despite New South Wales considering a PPP deal to buy $3.5 billion of new rail rolling stock, Mr Foley said SA was unlikely to go down a similar path.

``You have to evaluate if there's value in it and are they services that can be neatly transferred to the private sector for operation or are they services that are better maintained and operated by government,'' he said.

``It really goes down to what is the service that's being delivered as against the nature of the infrastructure.

``The private sector would like to get into most space when it comes to government infrastructure, but on the side of the rail system, I don't know.

``It would depend on the nature of the work we're wanting done as to whether the private sector would be able to be in that space and, I guess, the answer is probably not.''

Opposition transport spokesman Duncan McFetridge called on the Government to announce its intentions and commit to a time frame to electrify the network.

Just on the PPP issue, I agree with Foley that it wouldn't be a good funding method for actual electrification, track and rolling-stock upgrades, but I wonder if it might work for upgrades to railway stations. It would probably only be feasible (profit-wise) for a few stations (like Brighton, Noarlunga, perhaps even Goodwood), but such partnerships could potentially become quite large, transit-oriented developments, including adjacent mid-density residential, if the motivation is there.

To all concerned,
It has been written many times that South Australia needs to do something about its Railway System. On another forum it was pointed out to me that there is not enough Electricity generated in SA to run an Electric Railway System, so if this is true not only will there need to be Railway Infastructure there will also need to be a new Power source.

In my opinion the only way to improve the Railway System is too firstly commit to having 16 New Deisel Railcars built that can be converted to Electric that have proper glass fitted to the windows so passengers can see out of the windows.
So the future plan would be,
1. 16 New Railcars to be introduced as soon as is practicle. Part of this fleet would need to be long distance running railcars so that when the Electrics is up and running these Railcars could be used for Country running.
2. Extend Rail Services to Mount Barker, Angaston and Aldinga Beach with the infastucture already in place for Electric operation.
3. Upgrade one line at a time for Electric operation, the busiest would be the best probably.
4. Upgrage other lines one after the other.

The plan may 20 years but at least the population of the State of South Australia could see a great advance ment in improving the Rail System.

I think also that this project would need to be a PPP simply because of the amout of money reqired to complete the project.

Regards,
Brian Leedham.
"An advocate of the Return of Railcar passenger services in Australia"

[Norman]

Apparently, the 3000-class rolling stock is Diesel-Electric, so it can be converted to Electric if needs to be.

Just one question, when is this Noarlunga Line upgrade starting and finishing?

[Cruise]

2030

[Will409]

From what I understand, the relseepering of the Noarlunga Centre line should happen sometime in the next 18 months. Because of the far greater passenger numbers, the Noarlunga line has been given priority over the Belair line which has also been scheduled for resleepering.

[Bulldozer]

I wouldn't get your hopes up about the current government doing anything serious about rail. The decision not to proceed with the Noarlunga extension despite the fact that in the next five years there's going to be well in excess of 10,000 new residents around there shows their true colours.

[Will409]

I can sort of undertsnad the Government holding back on the extension for the moment considering the state of the track as it currently is. Atleast get the Noarlunga line upgraded to a good standard first before extending it. They do still have the reserve inplace for the extension plus they havn't actually called of the extension. There is still some hope but but how much longer much we wait.

I also had a look at a press statement from the department on their website about the extension and $50million was allocated to the acquisition of new rollingstock. I'll try and have a look for the link.

[Will409]

I have taken the libery of highlighting a couple of 'juicy' bits.

http://www.ministers.sa.gov.au/news.php?id=2596

December 19, 2007

The feasibility study into a passenger rail line to Seaford has recommended the State Government retain the land corridor through Adelaide’s south for a future project and also look to acquire land for a possible extension further south. Transport Minister Patrick Conlon said while a cost benefit study showed the project was not yet a feasible option, the report had identified a likely need for an eventual extension.

“At this point, the cost benefit figures just don't add up but we strongly believe they will in the future,” Mr Conlon said.

“Not only are we retaining the rail corridor, we are also looking to acquire more land in an Aldinga corridor with a view to a longer extension.”

Mr Conlon said the report showed that the Government’s commitment to resleepering the Noarlunga line would improve patronage and the business case figures. The work will start next year as part of a $121m rail revitalisation program.

The feasibility study recommends that:

The feasibility and priority for funding of the proposal be reviewed:
After concrete resleepering of the Noarlunga to Adelaide rail line is complete.
If high frequency and high speed rail services and other public transport priorities are approved.
Once the population increases in the southern areas of Adelaide.
The rail corridor over the Onkaparinga Valley be secured in the name of the Minister for Transport.
A rail corridor to Aldinga be identified.

"Mr Jim Hallion and senior experts in the Department of Transport, Energy and Infrastructure will continue to work with the local council as new data and information becomes available,” Mr Conlon said.

“We also have some very difficult environmental challenges surrounding the project and DTEI will continue to look at those issues.

“It is vital that we start work on our program of resleepering next year and that will already deliver real results for the people of the South.”

The feasibility study shows the current cost of the project to be $175m with a single-line bridge or $215m with room for a double line. More than $50m would also be required in rolling stock to allow the extension to operate.

[muzzamo]

I know someone whos job it is to put spin on these sort of things... The thing about retaining the land is just spin, they would have done this anyway and it probably isn't actually costing anything whatsoever or even representing an action.

Its a shame but what if you work out the cost per resident of a $200m rail extension to seaford? How many residents would be down that way? 30,000 max after further developments? As a back of the envelope calculation that works out to over $6000 per resident, then you take into account the fact that 60% of people do not catch any public transport whatsoever (and still wont) and it is much higher.

I personally would love to see it going there, but when you take into account the fact that they would need to buy more diesel electric rollingstock as well as the fact that most of the line is buckled between brighton and the city you can certainly see where they are coming from.

I would expect it to be another 10 years, after they have electrified and upgraded the rest of the network (like in perth) that you will see a renaissance for rail transport in Adelaide, similarly to the glenelg tram extension the upgrading of the existing infrastructure will be a catalyst for expansion.