News & Discussion: Trams

[jk1237]

From what I know in Melbourne, you can drive past a unloading tram on the left at a safety zone stop (where the fence things are), but if there is no safety zone its illegal to overtake a tram on the left if it has its doors open or hazard lights flashing. The 2nd case is mainly in the suburbs, whereas the safety zones are mainly in the inner city areas.

I have a cool picture of King William St in the 1940s which showed safety zones, which was a pole and with marked lines on the ground of where to stand, where i guess u hope no cars run into u. Traffic is going past in these shots. However for example, the tram stops along Payneham Rd/Glen Osmond Rd/Unley Rd wouldnt have had safety zone caus theres no room, so cars would be banned from driving past on left. Can any confirm?

[AtD]

http://www.messengernews.com.au/article ... _news.html

Pay more for parking: professor

Chris Day
22Jan08

ALL-day parking fees in the city should at least double to encourage more workers to use public transport, a transport expert says.
UniSA's professor of transport planning Michael Taylor said all-day city parking for as little as $8 did nothing to reduce peak-hour traffic congestion.

He said the city council should increase fees in its own car parks and introduce a levy on all private car parks, forcing them to do the same.

The rise would take cars off the road, cut peak-hour travel times and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, Prof Taylor told the City Messenger.

``Doubling would be a good start but I suspect you would have to go even higher, say a $20 minimum for all-day parking.''

He said any extra parking revenue should be spent on schemes such as free public transport within the city and more bike lanes.

``People won't like it at first and it's a question of how it's done ... but people adapt to things like this and would find the advantages.''

The city council charges between $8 and $12 for drivers to park before 9.15am and leave before 7pm. Private car parks charge between $9 and $13 for a similar service.

A time trial by the City Messenger, starting at 8.20am last Friday (January 18), found it took 27 minutes 22 seconds to drive the city loop, via North Tce, West Tce, South Tce, Hutt St and East Tce.

The traffic lights were red 20 times of a possible 32.

Lord Mayor Michael Harbison said increasing parking fees would be ``counter productive''.

``The residential location of the population is such that most people are condemned to drive a car to meet their needs,'' he said.

``To make (parking) harder and more expensive would be counter productive. While metro Adelaide in so limited in provision of public transport, I don't think it's realistic.''

Mr Harbison favoured further extensions of the city's tram network to get more people to leave their cars at home.

The State Government has repeatedly said it wants to extend the tram network but is yet to provide a funding commitment or any designs.

[rubberman]

jk

Go down to the stops, have a look at them.

They are wide enough so that if they were split in half and the trams went down the middle, they could still access wheelchairs.

Er, no. The tram stops formerly in Adelaide were NOT designed in 1905 - Adelaide did not have electric trams till 1909.

With the exact same width as we have now, but with the trams going on the inside, there is a ton of room for wheelchairs and the stops could have then been extended without any disruption to the trams. AND if there was a shortage of trams, the shuttle could be done by buses using the tram right of way.

Just the same as I was not saying we should have Melb superstops, neither did I say we should have exactly the same design as in 1958. (Although most of the 1958 inner city stops had a concrete plinth with a pole and light on to divert the traffic round). All we need is the same amount of room, but just divided a bit differently. Really simple, and there is plenty of room.

[AtD]

AND if there was a shortage of trams, the shuttle could be done by buses using the tram right of way.

Not really, buses would need doors on the right hand side.

[AG]

http://www.messengernews.com.au/article ... _news.html

Pay more for parking: professor

Chris Day
22Jan08

ALL-day parking fees in the city should at least double to encourage more workers to use public transport, a transport expert says.
UniSA's professor of transport planning Michael Taylor said all-day city parking for as little as $8 did nothing to reduce peak-hour traffic congestion.

He said the city council should increase fees in its own car parks and introduce a levy on all private car parks, forcing them to do the same.

The rise would take cars off the road, cut peak-hour travel times and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, Prof Taylor told the City Messenger.

``Doubling would be a good start but I suspect you would have to go even higher, say a $20 minimum for all-day parking.''

He said any extra parking revenue should be spent on schemes such as free public transport within the city and more bike lanes.

``People won't like it at first and it's a question of how it's done ... but people adapt to things like this and would find the advantages.''

The city council charges between $8 and $12 for drivers to park before 9.15am and leave before 7pm. Private car parks charge between $9 and $13 for a similar service.

A time trial by the City Messenger, starting at 8.20am last Friday (January 18), found it took 27 minutes 22 seconds to drive the city loop, via North Tce, West Tce, South Tce, Hutt St and East Tce.

The traffic lights were red 20 times of a possible 32.

Lord Mayor Michael Harbison said increasing parking fees would be ``counter productive''.

``The residential location of the population is such that most people are condemned to drive a car to meet their needs,'' he said.

``To make (parking) harder and more expensive would be counter productive. While metro Adelaide in so limited in provision of public transport, I don't think it's realistic.''

Mr Harbison favoured further extensions of the city's tram network to get more people to leave their cars at home.

The State Government has repeatedly said it wants to extend the tram network but is yet to provide a funding commitment or any designs.

All fine and well trying to increase car parking fees in the CBD, but without any proper improvements to the public transport and cycling networks beforehand, all it will do is discourage some people from coming into the city at all instead of shifting to other types of transportation. There's already an excess of carparking space in the CBD, there would be an even bigger excess if fees were lifted. Not that shifting people out of cars is a bad idea, but other changes need to be made as well.

[muzzamo]

not to mention playing into the hands of the mega malls in the suburbs, especially westfield marion

[crawf]

It would backfire, so I can't support it.

[rhino]

AND if there was a shortage of trams, the shuttle could be done by buses using the tram right of way.

Not really, buses would need doors on the right hand side.

The whole point of Rubberman's posts is that if the tram stop platforms were on either side of the tracks, instead of between them, busses could use the tram corridor because the doors would be on the correct side for the platforms.

[The_Q915]

Um, jk, please check my posts.

Adelaide had Melbourne style left hand loading in King William Street with safety zones till 1958.

I have never seen these left hand loading bays in any of the old photos.

My understatanding has been having to walk to the tram in the middle of the road was one of the reasons they went to buses.

I must support the Mayor for rejecting the proposal to increase parking fees.

[Tyler_Durden]

not to mention playing into the hands of the mega malls in the suburbs, especially westfield marion

Exactly. It's a nice idea and I like what it's trying to achieve but this being Adelaide, people will simply avoid the city if parking costs are increased.

Personally, I think incentives to catch public transport would work better than deterring people from using cars. For example, public transport could be made cheaper, or even free.

[AtD]

The whole point of Rubberman's posts is that if the tram stop platforms were on either side of the tracks, instead of between them, busses could use the tram corridor because the doors would be on the correct side for the platforms.

My mistake. But I don't think the stops should be outside the tracks, there's already issues with with their size with the crowds at Rundle Mall. Imagine if the platform were half the size.

[AG]

Who said that the width of the two platforms combined would have to be the same width as the existing platform? Smartest way to reconfigure the platforms is to build the side platforms not directly opposite each other, but on the opposite sides of the intersection. That means trams heading south would stop at a platform before crossing the intersection (platform on the left rather than the right, would mean the track and platform would swap position), while northbound trams would also pull into a platform before crossing the same intersection. Access to both platforms wouldn't really be a problem in KWS because they already have scramble crossings.

EDIT: Diagram showing what I mean below.

[AtD]

You're right, that would work.

[Cruise]

An even better solution would be to stop pissing money away on more tram stations and lines until the heavy rail system is upgraded.

[muzzamo]

An even better solution would be to stop pissing money away on more tram stations and lines until the heavy rail system is upgraded.

Stop winging.. They are resleepering heavy rail very soon then who knows what will happen after that.