News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[Wilfy 2007]

Bulldozer, Will 409,

I think we need to take on board all the things that have happened since December the 17th.
December the 18th it was anounced that the seaford extension is to be shelved until 2011.
A couple of days later the Housing department announces that some more land is to be made available for Housing.
Then there is talk of the Seaford Extension going further to Aldinga/Aldinga beach.

The SA Government knows what they are doing believe it or not. they knew what was going on before they announced it all, So if they delay it until 2011 it will be possibly because they have to buy some of the land that is in the Corridor that does not belong to them as yet.

So know the public of South Australia needs to put the pressure on.

Regards,

Brian Leedham.

[jk1237]

My problem is that yes, stats show that it might not be feasible yet, but it will be cheaper to build now than in 10 years time. More housing will be built there in next 5 years, so whats the difference in doing it now than in 10 years, in terms of their feasibility study. It will pay for itself sometime in the next 50 years, so after the Noarlunga line is upgraded, bloody do the extension then. Somone from Perth please come over and visit our govt transport departments.
Id like to see the feasibility study of building multi million $ tunnels under South Rd, so you can save 3-4 mins of travel time, in an era where oil prices are getting higher and other negative environmental effects of car overuse.

[rhino]

So the future plan would be,
1. 16 New Railcars to be introduced as soon as is practicle. Part of this fleet would need to be long distance running railcars so that when the Electrics is up and running these Railcars could be used for Country running.
2. Extend Rail Services to Mount Barker, Angaston and Aldinga Beach with the infastucture already in place for Electric operation.
3. Upgrade one line at a time for Electric operation, the busiest would be the best probably.
4. Upgrage other lines one after the other.

Oh God! I can't believe people are still advocating this useless proposal! Look at a map of where the railway goes and get this: Commuters from Mount Barker are not going to flock to a rail service that takes an hour and a half to reach the city, when a bus on the freeway can do the trip in 40 minutes! End of story.

Angaston and Aldinga Beach, however, are far more viable.

[AG]

To all concerned,
It has been written many times that South Australia needs to do something about its Railway System. On another forum it was pointed out to me that there is not enough Electricity generated in SA to run an Electric Railway System, so if this is true not only will there need to be Railway Infastructure there will also need to be a new Power source.

In my opinion the only way to improve the Railway System is too firstly commit to having 16 New Deisel Railcars built that can be converted to Electric that have proper glass fitted to the windows so passengers can see out of the windows.
So the future plan would be,
1. 16 New Railcars to be introduced as soon as is practicle. Part of this fleet would need to be long distance running railcars so that when the Electrics is up and running these Railcars could be used for Country running.
2. Extend Rail Services to Mount Barker, Angaston and Aldinga Beach with the infastucture already in place for Electric operation.
3. Upgrade one line at a time for Electric operation, the busiest would be the best probably.
4. Upgrage other lines one after the other.

The plan may 20 years but at least the population of the State of South Australia could see a great advance ment in improving the Rail System.

I think also that this project would need to be a PPP simply because of the amout of money reqired to complete the project.

Regards,
Brian Leedham.
"An advocate of the Return of Railcar passenger services in Australia"

I don't think it would be neccessary to buy more diesel railcars only to operate them for several years before electric conversion. Part of the network could be closed for a given period and then the neccessary EMUs brought into service after testing and driver training following electrification. The displaced diesel railcars could remain in use on other lines still not yet electrified. Stating that there is only one way of going about electrification is rather limited-thinking. There are numerous ways the electrification can be undertaken, and the extent of the electrification.

There is also the issue of whether to convert the suburban rail network to standard gauge. This would add some cost to any upgrade and require at least some periods of closure on the rail network, but it would allow for easier access to suitable rollingstock, and improve the efficiency of certain lines such as the Belair line which are dogged with broad gauge passing loops.

[Will409]

With standardisation, you also have the advantage of simpler track/signalling arrangements since you don't have to deal with two seperate gauges. Standardisation is almost inevitable since all resleepering projects with concrete both in the past and also into the future are gauge convertable.

[thechap]

Brian Leedham.

Brian, why do you bother having a nickname if you're going to sign every post with your real name?

[Wilfy 2007]

The article should have read "Premier flags COSMETIC changes for TransAdelaide"
because without serious funding commitments to fixing the rail lines (not just
resleepering a few), standardising them, electrifying them, building new
stations with ample secure car parking and buying efficient and fast rolling stock
anything else wont fix the problem...

Its like expecting a heart surgeon to use 19th century medical equipment to
try and perform a triple heart bypass it aint going to work is it... The patient
will suffer....

In this case the Rail Commuter will suffer, until they get it into their thick heads
that without money any change is just cosmetic.

I think the Government is just doing this to get the angry commuting public (big hairy monkey)
off its back for the time being.

The above messages have indicated that TransAdelaide have not been doing their homework for some time. With the big events mentioned, it would have been better to suppy more carriages and run them half empty instead of having them overfull so as not to pick up all possible passengers.

Right at this minute Trans Adelaide/ Transport department need to,
1. Order 16 new Railcars and have them operating as soon as possible.
2. Standardise one line at a time in sections so as not to interupt services too much. This needs to be started now as well.
3. Plan and start extensions to Aldinga Beach, Virginia/Buckland Park, Mount Barker and Angaston so that the infastructure is being built now as well.
4. The Electrification infastructure could be done at the same time that the Standardisation is being done, doing it in sections as well.
5. Resleepering needs to be started now as well.
So the above needs to be a 2008 Project and the State Government needs to be pressured into it.
Check out my new Website about SAR 2008 at,
http://www.freewebs.com/saroeight/

[mm42]

It’s great news to have a Premier willing to do something significant to Adelaide’s run-down train system. Perth embarked on a similar transformation by electrifying its existing lines in the early 1990’s, and its patronage growth has far outpaced that of Adelaide since then. Perth, however, has a lot more office space in its city centre than Adelaide, and therefore a lot more CBD employment. Adelaide has had relatively little employment within its CBD, but is now finally moving in the same direction, with $1 billion of development on the books in 2007 (plus the $1.5 billion relocation of the Royal Adelaide Hospital).

Greater CBD employment is part of an Australia-wide trend, because it enables employers to attract and retain talent. Studies have shown that staff turnover is lower in employment locations with rail access. With increasing fuel prices and Peak Oil, it’s a wise move to be an employer of choice for the future too.

Resleepering: Will the new sleepers be tilted on curves to allow faster trains ? In the Victorian Fast Rail Project, the outer rail was layed about 15cm higher than the inner rail. This changes a 60 km/hr curve to be taken at 80 km/hr without requiring a tilt train. Resleepering needs to be part of a long range vision. Concrete sleepers have a life of 70 years, and if this sort of planning isn’t done early in the project, any new electric trains will be stuck with the same old speed limits. On straight sections, speeds of 130 km/hr should be planned for. These speeds are achieved in suburban Perth and Melbourne.

Electrification: This should be staged to ensure continued political support. Start with the Noarlunga line, because this has the greatest growth potential. This would free up perhaps 30 carriages that could be used to handle passenger growth on other lines.

Internal subway within the CBD: The MATS report of 1968 recommended a subway beneath King William Street, with stations at Rundle Street, Victoria Square and Gillies Street. The current CBD developments will soon exceed the capacity of the Glenelg tram to carry people to the railway station. A subway should be part of the longer term vision for rail development in Adelaide. When the Glenelg tram was extended to North Terrace, tram ridership jumped 40%. When Auckland relocated its railway station into the heart of the CBD, its ridership also surged about 40%. A similar increase in ridership could be expected with a subway in Adelaide.

[Will409]

Welcome aboard mm42, hope you enjoy your stay here.

There are some curves in Adelaide that already have 'super elevation' (where the outer rail is at a greater height as you have described) such as the long curve between Chidda and Salisbury. There are also a large number of curves elsewhere on the system that have been super elevated. There are however some curves that COULD be upgraded when the time comes. The downside of all this is the cost. You need more ballast then you otherwise would to raise the rail plus you need to increase the camber of sleepers (in other words, you need more then on a straight section' to take the sideways forces at a higher speed.

[jk1237]

I agree with you mm42, except on the quote that Perth has a lot more CBD employment than Adelaide city. Adelaide has the most dominant city centre of the 5 major capitals in term of economic activity, relative to the suburbs, in terms of office employment, retail spending, education and entertainment. I wouldnt be surprised if there was even more absolute numbers of employment in Adelaides CBD than Perth. I'll have to find some stats

[AG]

In 2004 there were approximately 110000 workers in the areas controlled by the Adelaide City Council from memory. It's certainly higher than that today.

[The_Q915]

2006
Area 15.57square kilometres
Estimated average daytime population 200,000
Estimated overnight population 22,000
Estimated permanent residents 15,000
Visitors resident overnight 7,000
Workers 99,000
Students enrolled in City institutions 63,000
Visitors (daily from metro area) 75,000
Number of dwellings 9,900
Office space 1,038,000 sq metres

2001
current transport profile:
360,000 person trips to/from the City every day
-23% mode split to public transport
-6% to non-vehicle modes
-72% to private cars
approximately 25% of car trips are through traffic
-71,000 carparks
-17,200 on-street (generally short term)
-53,800 off-street

[mooshie]

Cool stats, got any on the other capitals for a comparo?

[AG]

Rail plan showdown looms
GREG KELTON and JOANNA VAUGHAN
January 28, 2008 09:00pm
ELECTRIFICATION of Adelaide's train system is likely to be unveiled as a major Liberal policy for the next state election.

Final details of the policy will be thrashed out at a Liberal Party meeting this week.

The controversial, costly policy is expected to be the centrepiece of a speech next week by Opposition Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith to the South Australian Press Club.

Electrification of the rail network – which means a faster, safer and more reliable service – is predicted to cost about $1.5 billion.

The Liberal policy will put public transport on the agenda as one of the key issues for the 2010 election.

Adelaide's public transport users have expressed increasing anger at the state of the train system, with unreliable timetables and doors which fly open the major causes for concern.

SA is the only mainland state still running diesel trains on its metropolitan network and the Government has announced a re-sleepering program it says could be the first step towards electrification.

The Liberal Party meeting, involving all state MPs, will be held over three days at Port Lincoln.

Liberal sources said yesterday the policy move was likely to be part of Mr Hamilton-Smith's "Master Plan for Adelaide" – the title of his address on February 8.

Mr Hamilton-Smith, who has in the past called for the electrification, confirmed yesterday that transport policy would be discussed at the meeting including "what to do about the rail system".

"I will be making some announcements for the Press Club," he said.

"It will be a bit controversial and I will upset a few people."

With only two years to go to the March, 2010, state election, Mr Hamilton-Smith told The Advertiser there would be a range of key issues discussed in Port Lincoln, including:

HEALTH, involving redeveloping the Royal Adelaide Hospital instead of building the new Marjorie Jackson-Nelson Hospital.

TAX, with a position paper to be released next month leading to a tax summit later in the year.

WATER, including finding ways to counter the looming crisis with the River Murray.

MORE details on how Liberals would introduce an Independent Commission Against Corruption.

Mr Hamilton-Smith said his frontbench reshuffle last week had been part of the essential planning for the next election.

"It is about a fresh team with new ideas," he said.

"That's the sort of badge I would like to put on the year coming up."

Mr Hamilton-Smith said the Liberals had a very careful two-part strategy to regain government at the next election.

He said the first had been to redefine the Liberals and also to redefine the Labor Government.

"I think we have succeeded in that first phase and Labor is not seen as favourably as they were before," he said.

"We have a long way to go yet but we are in a stronger position than we were at the last election.

"The tide is coming in for us and going out for Labor."

He said with the development of new policies, the aim this year was to show the Liberal Party's ideas were better than Labor's.

"With only two years to go until the state election, this is an important year to show South Australians we are ready for government and that Labor is tired and out of touch," he said.

"We want to seize the initiative from the Government, which is doing nothing on a range of key areas."

Mr Hamilton-Smith said all the policies would be fully costed even though the detailed costing would not be provided until the election campaign.

Water will be a key issue for the Liberal Party this year and Mr Hamilton-Smith said the party's plan would end water restrictions and reduce the state's reliance on the River Murray. "Water will be a number one issue for us this year," he said.

"We have won the battle of ideas on desalination convincingly and the Government still hasn't delivered on water, so our focus will now move to delivering. The water issue could turn into a state crisis if it doesn't rain. We have some very exciting water policies to announce."

The Liberal Party conference will begin with a shadow cabinet meeting tomorrow, followed by a joint party meeting to discuss the new policy initiatives.

[Will409]

In my opinion, it looks more like a plug for a range of liberal policies then a proper news story.