News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

[The_Q915]

does this make electrification of the rail network a bad thing now?

[jimmy_2486]

So has a resleepering program been approved for any of our lines???

I thought Noarlunga and Belair lines were going to definately be resleepered.

[muzzamo]

My take on this is that they may have gotten wind of some government plans for electrification and they are trying to blunt their policy announcement by announcing their own first.

Im going to guess that the government may now have to reveal their own plans early, possibly sometime this week

[AG]

So has a resleepering program been approved for any of our lines???

I thought Noarlunga and Belair lines were going to definately be resleepered.

Funding has been committed to the resleepering of the Belair and Noarlunga Lines.

[rhino]

Firstly, according to ABC Radio, Matin Hamilton-Smith has promised the Liberals will "Look into electrifying the rail system" - he hasn't promised to electrify it.

In response to this, Mike Rann said that Labour has looked into it, and it is too expensive at this stage. Remember Pat has already said that re-sleepering is the first step toward electrification. Rann said he would like to know where MHS is going to get the sort of money involved? MHS said the Libs would look into upgrading the RAH and scrapping the Marj Tahal. Looking back through history, another likely scenario would be that MHS sells off more assets to the first bidder for an injection of quick cash which we'll all suffer the consequenses of a few years later.

[rogue]

Is there anything left to sell?

On a side note, I caught the Outer Habour line train over the weekend and noticed the clips in place ready for for third Standard gauge rail to be installed at a later stage. This must have been done when they re-sleepered this line a few years back.

[Norman]

I noticed that too. I guess most people are too dumb to notice that electification IS happening, albeit at a slower rate. I would prefer slow and consistant than major debt via the MHS way.

[mm42]

CBD employment: Thanks for those who contributed stats on CBD employment and public transport modal share. Without activity in the centre, there's not much point in upgrading a public transport system. A 26% public transport modal share is dismal, but understandable given the wide streets. The 40% growth in patronage on the Glenelg tramline following its extension shows a large potential demand of people ready to change modes once the public transport experience becomes better than the car experience.

Comparable CBD stats for Melbourne, from a survey undertaken by Melbourne City Council, are that of people interviewed within the CBD, 50% had arrived by train, 20% by tram, 20% by car, and 10% by walking and cycling. There are about 60,000 parking spaces in the Melbourne CBD, which is not greatly different from Adelaide or Perth.

Electrification: When Melbourne electrified its suburban network in the 1920's, the entire network was electrified within about 3 years. Melbourne's population at that time was less than Adelaide's current population. Brisbane electrified its entire network within 3-5 years in the 1980's, and Perth within about 3 years in the 1990's. Each city was somehow able to find the funds to do the whole job quickly. In each case, electrification coincided with a need to replaced dated rolling stock. For Adelaide, it's probably better to stage the conversion, starting with the Noalunga line. Diesel railcars cost at least $1m/car more than electrics, because of the need to a specially built diesel motor. New rolling stock for the Noalunga line would free up older diesel-electric railcars for other lines. Patronage growth on the Noalunga line would help "sell" the electrification concept politically, and enable progressive conversion of the other lines. Eventually, the current diesel-electric stock would be converted to electric. The 2000 series were originally designed for conversion to electric operation, but are limited to 90 km/hr, whereas most new Australian railcars can accommodate 120 or 130 km/hr.

New stations: I come from the Adelaide Hills (but now live in Victoria), and am impressed the huge demand for park-and-ride in the Hills, especially at Coromandel and Blackwood stations. Surrounding streets are often packed with parked cars for a long distance from the station. Why is there no talk of new stations ? Just down the hill, at the Bellevue Heights railway passing bay, is an area that could easily be converted into a new station and car park. There's room on an old rubbish dump (which has been closed and covered with soil) to park 800 cars ! Car parks of this size have the potential to cause signficiant reductions in road traffic.

[Will409]

Just a note about the 2000 class railcars, they are limited to 90km/h by TransAdelaide track standards at the most (which has been the limit since 1983 back in the days of the STA). The speed limit also applies to the slightly newer 3000 class. However, because the mechanical equipment such as the engines and torque convertors are virtually identical to that of the old Prospectors, they are capable of 160km/h

[muzzamo]

i think that mm2 is spot on (apart from the technical stuff that was pointed out)

[AtD]

Just a note about the 2000 class railcars, they are limited to 90km/h by TransAdelaide track standards at the most (which has been the limit since 1983 back in the days of the STA). The speed limit also applies to the slightly newer 3000 class. However, because the mechanical equipment such as the engines and torque convertors are virtually identical to that of the old Prospectors, they are capable of 160km/h

I've heard the 160km/h figure thrown around a few times before but have never been able to find a creditable source to back it up. You wouldn't know of one, would you?

[AG]

On a suburban network 160km/h is completely unnecessary, particularly when you have stations around 1km from each other.

[Will409]

If you look at the mechanical specifications of a 2000 class and an old Prospector Railcar side by side, they are very similar. Both when originally built had MAN engines fitted and after being re engined were fitted with Cummins engines.

Here are the specs and sources:

http://www.geocities.com/sa_railways/ (select the info button)
http://www.railsa.org/index.php?view=ar ... &Itemid=57
2000 class

Original engines: MAN D3650 (x2)
Power per engine: 505hp

Replacement engines: Cummins KTA 19R (x2)
Power per engine: 525hp

Torque convertor: Voith T420r

Sadly, info on the Prospector Railcars isn't as fruitful at this point of time (even putting in a search for WCA/WCE class railcars which is their official designation hasn't helped!)

[SRW]

Electric trains too costly, says Premier
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:00am AEDT
Updated Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:20am AEDT
ABC News Online

South Australian Premier Mike Rann says the Government can not afford to electrify Adelaide's trains.

The State Government says it cannot afford to electrify Adelaide's train system.

The idea is being considered by the Opposition as a policy in the lead-up to the next election.

Adelaide's public train system has recently been plagued with problems and South Australia is the only mainland state to still run diesel trains.

Opposition Leader Martin Hamilton-Smith says the party will look at electrifying the system, at its conference starting today in Port Lincoln, but he has stopped short of committing to the plan.

Premier Mike Rann has questioned how the Opposition would fund such a project.

"The only possible way he can pay for these things is to basically increase taxes or also of course revert back to the Liberal dark days of privatising everything that moves," he said.

The Premier says electrifying the system would not be responsible economic management.

I'm sorry, what?! This is hugely disappointing.

[Wayno]

I'm sorry, what?! This is hugely disappointing.

This is just Rann attempting to dismiss MHS and scare the public away from the liberals. I bet Rann will himself propose to electrify the system as a 2010 election promise...