[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

[SRW]

When you think about it, the fact that it's been neglected for many years presents a golden opportunity to do something that will serve our city into the future. However, it's clear that nothing great will ever be achieved unless the State Government takes the lead. The ACC simply doesn't have the critical mass (in terms of funds, vision and management) to deliver something truly great.

As for the article, the wiggle idea is interesting, but because I don't support an underpass, I still favour diverting traffic around a closed square. I think an underpass would be detrimental to Grote and Wakefield streetscapes, and limit the design possibilities for the Square itself (for instance a central observation tower [where would the foundations go?] or subterranean facilities [museums, cinemas, etc or even a relocated central station]) all for the sake of making it easier for people to travel straight through, and out of, the city. Not to mention the cost...

[Omicron]

Yes, I agree with you regarding the underpass. There are 11 east-west thoroughfares across the Adelaide CBD, so if motorists cannot find a path through town if only one route were to be closed, I question their navigation abilities. Similarly, if businesses along either Grote or Wakefield streets are convinced that they rely so fundamentally upon passing traffic for their survival, I would suggest they conduct proper research to determine the truth of their claims, and use this evidence in support of their desire to see Victoria Square remain a vast traffic intersection rather than a proper city square with the potential to draw substantial numbers of foot traffic from public events.

[crawf]

Difference is, that this is one of the main routes connecting the eastern and western suburbs.

[Omicron]

Difference is, that this is one of the main routes connecting the eastern and western suburbs.

True, but with the Bakewell Underpass now complete, Henley Beach Rd. becomes a far more appealing proposition.

[AG]

The traffic could always be diverted to Franklin/Flinders Street and Gouger/Angas Streets by converting them to one way streets, with traffic westbound on Angas and Gouger, eastbound on Franklin and Flinders.

[Will]

The traffic could always be diverted to Franklin/Flinders Street and Gouger/Angas Streets by converting them to one way streets, with traffic westbound on Angas and Gouger, eastbound on Franklin and Flinders.

Yeah I agree. when travelling in an east-west manner through the city, I already prefer to by-pass Grote-Wakefield Streets and use Flinders-Franklin Streets. It does not take too much effort, and I find that it actually saves me time, as there are less traffic lights and traffic in general. An underpass would be a gross waste of tax-payers money. It would be a monument to the laziness of Adelaide motorists. The millions of dollars wasted on an overpass would be better spent making Victoria Square world class.

[SRW]

Difference is, that this is one of the main routes connecting the eastern and western suburbs.

Question is, should it be? The city should be planned as the destination itself, not as a something simply to pass through. Our ring routes are sufficient enough for the time being, and can be improved if needed.

An underpass would be a gross waste of tax-payers money. It would be a monument to the laziness of Adelaide motorists. The millions of dollars wasted on an overpass would be better spent making Victoria Square world class.

Exactly! Well said.

[duke]

I got back from Surfers on Sunday. Lots of photos, awesome fun. But anyway there was one thing that stood out as something we should do for Victoria Square.

There is a place called The Circle on Cavill. Its a circular area with shops around and restaurants. The main focus point is a huge screen. It looks like its about 2-3 stories high.
At all hours of the day and night there would always be people around. One day Nova did drinking contests for a Iced Coffee promotion.
It was just an awesome atmosphere.

In this first picture you can see that there are two large screens in Surfers. The one to the left however is the one I am referring to.







View looking back away from the screen to the people watching the TV.



Imagine the crowds that could be pulled to Vic square with sporting events. The screen in Surfers I assume is sponsored by Foxtel going by the logo on the bottom of it. They did movie night things also where each night they were screening a Foxtel movie for free.

[JamesXander]

I got back from Surfers on Sunday. Lots of photos, awesome fun. But anyway there was one thing that stood out as something we should do for Victoria Square.

There is a place called The Circle on Cavill. Its a circular area with shops around and restaurants. The main focus point is a huge screen. It looks like its about 2-3 stories high.
At all hours of the day and night there would always be people around. One day Nova did drinking contests for a Iced Coffee promotion.
It was just an awesome atmosphere.

In this first picture you can see that there are two large screens in Surfers. The one to the left however is the one I am referring to.







View looking back away from the screen to the people watching the TV.



Imagine the crowds that could be pulled to Vic square with sporting events. The screen in Surfers I assume is sponsored by Foxtel going by the logo on the bottom of it. They did movie night things also where each night they were screening a Foxtel movie for free.

haha we were at the Gold Coast at the same time. I stayed at the Zenith. Right next to 'Soul' and in Front of the new 'Hilton Towers'. I watched the tennis on that Big screen. & Telly in the morning when the bloody jack hammers cranked up at 6 every morning!


I also caught the plane back on Sunday, the 6:45 flight from Brisbane on Qantas?

[duke]

haha we were at the Gold Coast at the same time. I stayed at the Zenith. Right next to 'Soul' and in Front of the new 'Hilton Towers'. I watched the tennis on that Big screen. & Telly in the morning when the bloody jack hammers cranked up at 6 every morning!

I also caught the plane back on Sunday, the 6:45 flight from Brisbane on Qantas?

I stayed at the Moorings on Cavill. Had a view overlooking the river. Flight was Sunday 6:10pm JetStar. Don't think I really want to fly JetStar again.

[JamesXander]

ahhh ok. Can't say I've ever flown Jetstar. Got Qantas Club, so pretty much attatched to Qantas.

I also stayed at Mantra Legends, that place was really good.

Did you see the signs for 'Soul' and the Hilton. Its going to totally change the skyline of the Gold Coast & the Caville Mall will be very different.

[duke]

ahhh ok. Can't say I've ever flown Jetstar. Got Qantas Club, so pretty much attatched to Qantas.

I also stayed at Mantra Legends, that place was really good.

Did you see the signs for 'Soul' and the Hilton. Its going to totally change the skyline of the Gold Coast & the Caville Mall will be very different.

Yeah this is 'Soul' I believe.





Another thing I found amazing about Surfers compared with Adelaide is all the sales offices for the high rise apartments are open until like 10pm every night.

I think Vic square could take a lot of inspiration from some of the things in Surfers. I think their meeting areas are lots better than anything in Sydney and definitely better than Fed Square in Melbourne.

[JamesXander]

Nah thats the Hilton towers, 'Soul' is only one building. My Hotel was about 20m to the right of that last photo.

A massive TV could somehow be erected at the point of the Diamond shape of Vic Square if the Tunnel were built and the Square become one again. That would be pretty cool.

Surfers is lucky because they have so many tourists, the place is always live.

When I was there I was thinking Jetty Road could become very similar if the Road were blocked off half way, only trams allowed and Cafe's etc encouraged. Maybe an Aquarium or some other tourist attraction enticed to the area also.

I can only drea,

[Omicron]

I'm of the opinion that a sponsored public area is inherently contradictory - how can a public area fully exploit its potential usefulness if it is bound if it is by the preferences of a specific, targeted organisation directed towards the return for shareholders?

What Adelaide needs is as well as a gathering point for large crowds, an area that is appealing to the workers and residents that frequent the area on a daily basis. It needs attractions that draw the casual user, as well as the committed attendee of events within the Square - proper landscaping, appropriate seating, and accessible food and drink retailers, beyond vast paved areas or public art. Melbourne's Federation Square has the advantage of the ability to construct buildings directly upon its site - we are not so lucky with Victoria Square, nor should we be. Its location within the Adelaide CBD is such that it demands the preservation of an open square, which limits its ability to draw crowds based on any built attractions.

This site demands a revolutionary model of urban design - one that is able to draw regular foot traffic without using a limited-appeal building within its boundaries. The recent developments south of VS will certainly aid this project, but they are by no means sufficient to deliver the sort of activity comparable to Rundle Mall, North King William St. or the Markets. I should hope that the ACC recognises this, and invites contributions from an international body rather than the local focus that a $10,000 prize ultimately dictates.

[SRW]

Well said Omicron, especially about limiting built form in any development of Victoria Square. Federation Square, ultimately, is not a model for us.