News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

[adam73837]

Well, if we are going to encourage people to come onto the roads if we build freeways, why don't we extend our railway network. Although I haven't heard about this rumour from any politicians, an extension of the railway line underneath the museum and art gallery, under Rymill Park and Victoria Park (with a station for race days and the Clipsal (if the grandstand is built to rejuvinate the place), under Fullarton Road, under Glen Osmond Road and on the median strip of the S-E Freeway after Crafers (like in Perth) and up to Mt Barker with a link onto the existing line would be great. The Adelaide Metro service would stop at Mt barker of course, but wouldn't that reduce traffic congestion along Glen Osmaond Road, Fullarton Road and other roads around the southern part of A21?

[jimmy_2486]

Well dont hold your breath AtD and adam because it doesnt seem like we will get a big overhaul of any of these.

The government has said they have put money for south road and our trains, but whether they actually do anything about it is a different story!!

[adam73837]

I agree, because one thing you can count on in Adelaide is the fact that things have to go through a lot of consideration before they get approved

[jimmy_2486]

Yeah the government have mistaken the "waiting for approval" box for the paper shreadder it seems.....

[Xaragmata]

Since I am a migrants with less than 5 years in Australia, I have not much knowledge on the history of Adelaide and the
road planning.

To rub salt into the would, there is the always-so-busy3-tracks rail crossing. I have witnessed in less than 8 months, two very seriously
life threatening incidents.

You weren't here 15 or so years ago, but the land was bought and cleared for a Torrens Road overpass above the Ovingham rail lines.
In the Adelaide way, the overpass was never built, and the land on the northern side of Torrens Rd is currently used for a bit of urban
forest.

[The_Q915]

Hi Adam, i agree with what you have said

But have you ever been to Los Angeles? A freeway system is not the answer, it doesn't matter how large you make the road system, demand will always rise above capacity.

Why must people allways refer to LosAngeles with any road construction. Why not more appropriate comparisions like perth and Adelaide's sister citys. Have you been to Tokyo. They have to push people into to the train to cram them all in because demand is so high. Does this mean public transport is not the awnser?

I am not shore public transport will reduce traffic congestion. They found the Northrn line in Perth to only reduce traffic congestion by 3% on the Mitchell Freeway.

[AG]

I am not shore public transport will reduce traffic congestion. They found the Northrn line in Perth to only reduce traffic congestion by 3% on the Mitchell Freeway.

You might find that Perth's northern suburbs are expanding very quickly in area and population. The suburbs around Currambine and Clarkson are growing quite quickly and the sprawl is already dragging Perth about 50km north from the CBD into Yanchep, well beyond the extent of the current freeway and train line.

[jk1237]

Ive heard Perth's northern line has taken away the equivalent of 6 lanes of traffic off that freeway. There are 4-6 car trains full every 15 mins that go past Joondalup, plus a shuttle service in between that goes to Whitfords. Id like to see what that the freeway is like, if the trainline was shut down for a week. Plus theres prob been up to another 100,000 that have moved in that area in the last 5-10 years, so ofcourse that freeway will only get busier, and the train too.

[adam73837]

Despite the fact that Perth's northern suburbs are expanding, so are Adelaide's. What with the upcoming mining boom and the troops that are coming to work at Edinburgh, Adelaide population will grow over the coming years. This means that we are going to need more transport routes to get into the city. Yes, I know that we are building the Northern Expressway, however we must realise that we can't just sit back and be proud of the fact that We are going to build an expressway and we've extended our tramline. If we are sitting back and being proud of this, we are truly pathetic. Adelaide's transport system needs major upgrades and I don't just mean South Road. I mean many things including:

• an extension of the railway line as I mentioned earlier today

• either an alternate route or the conversion of Portrush Road into a major non-stop route from Glen Osmond to Gepps Cross in order to cope with cars, buses and the huge semi-trailers. By the way, is the government aware that A17 is the link between the south-east of the state and Port Adelaide thus meaning that it carries quite a large amount of traffic? As do Grand Junction Road and Cross Road

• Instead of creating 'left-turn-only' intersections and keeping the traffic lights along Pt Wakefield Road between the Northern Expressway and Salisbury Highway, turn that section into a freeway, because mark my words, when the northern area expands and Pt Wakefield Road becomes engulfed in suburban roads, we'll be kicking ourselves and saying why didn't we do something when we had the chance, because now we have semi's going through urban areas.

I'd finally like to say that if Perth has a huge transport developments such as freeways and underground railway lines, why don't we? And don't anyone say that they have a significantly larger population than us or that they have more money, because they only have about 400 000 more people more than us, and that doesn't compare to how much development goes on in each of the cities and with the new mining boom, etc, if we spend our money wisely (and on important things) we'll be able to cover the costs of these projects.
By the way, there is a city in Canada called Calgary, which has a smaller population than that of Adelaide and yet it has (from what I have read) a minimum of eight roads which are of freeway standard. There is absolutely no excuse now. People cannot say, that Adelaide does not need freeways or expressways. And I'm not just saying this because of Calgary. Our public transport and road systems are shocking. Come on people, it is 8 years into the 21st Century and yet all we've done is build a new airport and a tramline. And of course who could forget the 5.5 km long expressway, which still looks somewhat like a bottle neck at parts of it.

[Will409]

Adam, before we do any extensions to the rail system, we need to make a seriously extensive and thorough upgrade of a system that I can only describe as abysmal. Once we have the current track at a half decent and in some cases safe (I have seen some sections that if inspected would fail national rail safety standards), then we can add more track to the system. A short extension of the Gawler Central line towards Gawler East/Concordia along the current freight only line in the Barossa as well as the Seaford/Aldinga extension would be a good start.

[adam73837]

I agree, but what of creating a tunnel to go underneath the museum, uni's, RAH, Runle Park, Rymill Park, Victoria Park, Glen Osmond Road, Adelaide-Crafers Highway and finally running along the median strip of the South Eastern Freeway until it reaches Mt Barker. This could reduce traffic congestion along Glen Osmond Road, Fullarton Road, Greenhill Road and the South Easten Freeway. It would also mean that if Martin Hamilton-Smith were to build his stadium on the 'Marj' site, it would mean that a large amount of the spectators in a sports match would catch public transport and that would mean that there would be less congestion on the roads. This is because there are also the existing railway lines that people would catch to get to the football, soccer etc.
BTW, what if MHS's stadium were to be a soccer stadium and if the SANFL were to help with the upgrading of Adelaide Oval as to cater for AFL matches . This would mean that there would be a football stadium and a soccer stadium in the CBD, just like a good city should have. If you ask me, building a football stadium on the Marj site is ridiculous because Adelaide oval is a stone-throw away. Especially if we want to bid for FIFA 2018, a high capacity soccer stadium would truly make the city come alive after a match. Can you imagine it?

[Norman]

I don't think it's possible to build a train line up the S-E Freeway because the road is too steep.

[monotonehell]

But have you ever been to Los Angeles? A freeway system is not the answer, it doesn't matter how large you make the road system, demand will always rise above capacity.

Why must people allways refer to LosAngeles with any road construction. Why not more appropriate comparisions like perth and Adelaide's sister citys. Have you been to Tokyo. They have to push people into to the train to cram them all in because demand is so high. Does this mean public transport is not the awnser?

The reason why we look to Los Angeles is that they've seen the urban sprawl that is associated with a freeway system. As AtD mentioned above, freeways have the effect of encouraging flat and wide development. Whereas what we need in Adelaide is more effective urban infill accompanied and encouraged by a more efficient public transport and road system.

But unlike a lot of posters I've seen on here think, a public transport system alone will not necessarily encourage the "right" kinds of development and land use. As several papers on the subject over the past 20 years have noted, there needs to be a combination of a properly thought out transport system (roads + PT) AND some land use legislation (zoning dictating kinds of development and density around transport corridors).

A lot of those in government (and out of it) have the idea that only rail, because of its permanent infrastructure, guides and encourages the right kinds of development on its own. This is a fallacy, there needs to be directives from Government regarding some land use no matter what the transport system is.

Properly organised bus networks, with dedicated busways, and stations with land use zoning around them have been proven to be more effective, cheaper to run and more flexible than rail, and encourage the "right" kinds of urban development.

Rail is not flexible enough and costs much more to run than buses. To encourage people to ride PT we need to make it more convenient than driving. It needs to be a door to door service for the majority, with park and ride stations an option for those in the minority. Rail requires bus feeder services and transfers to be a door to door service, passengers dislike transfers. When considering the true cost of a rail network the costs of feeder buses are often left out.

The thing that slows rail the most is regular stops. To alleviate this express trains are run, but unless you have an alternate track on which to run the express train past the stopping services your timetables are slowed by interleaving services. Again buses win, because a bus can leave a busway at a station to service different areas (to door service), those stations can be less frequent. Also buses can pass each other at stations, allowing express services to pass stopping services.

Hrmz that turned to a rant. But a well informed rant.

[Will]

Despite the fact that Perth's northern suburbs are expanding, so are Adelaide's. What with the upcoming mining boom and the troops that are coming to work at Edinburgh, Adelaide population will grow over the coming years. This means that we are going to need more transport routes to get into the city. Yes, I know that we are building the Northern Expressway, however we must realise that we can't just sit back and be proud of the fact that We are going to build an expressway and we've extended our tramline. If we are sitting back and being proud of this, we are truly pathetic. Adelaide's transport system needs major upgrades and I don't just mean South Road. I mean many things including:

• an extension of the railway line as I mentioned earlier today

• either an alternate route or the conversion of Portrush Road into a major non-stop route from Glen Osmond to Gepps Cross in order to cope with cars, buses and the huge semi-trailers. By the way, is the government aware that A17 is the link between the south-east of the state and Port Adelaide thus meaning that it carries quite a large amount of traffic? As do Grand Junction Road and Cross Road

• Instead of creating 'left-turn-only' intersections and keeping the traffic lights along Pt Wakefield Road between the Northern Expressway and Salisbury Highway, turn that section into a freeway, because mark my words, when the northern area expands and Pt Wakefield Road becomes engulfed in suburban roads, we'll be kicking ourselves and saying why didn't we do something when we had the chance, because now we have semi's going through urban areas.

I'd finally like to say that if Perth has a huge transport developments such as freeways and underground railway lines, why don't we? And don't anyone say that they have a significantly larger population than us or that they have more money, because they only have about 400 000 more people more than us, and that doesn't compare to how much development goes on in each of the cities and with the new mining boom, etc, if we spend our money wisely (and on important things) we'll be able to cover the costs of these projects.
By the way, there is a city in Canada called Calgary, which has a smaller population than that of Adelaide and yet it has (from what I have read) a minimum of eight roads which are of freeway standard. There is absolutely no excuse now. People cannot say, that Adelaide does not need freeways or expressways. And I'm not just saying this because of Calgary. Our public transport and road systems are shocking. Come on people, it is 8 years into the 21st Century and yet all we've done is build a new airport and a tramline. And of course who could forget the 5.5 km long expressway, which still looks somewhat like a bottle neck at parts of it.

If I recall properly both Perth and Calgary have huge mineral resources which provide both cities with the wealth required to build such infrastructure. Adelaide on the other hand has never had a mining boom, and if you read through the history of this state, you will see that we have always had economic problems. However things can change, and the past should not dictate the future. My advice for you is to wait for the royalties from the ming boom to start pouring into the state treasury. Then you will see that with money the state government will instigate many of the projects you have mentioned.

[AtD]

I think the fact we don't have an extensive freeway system like cities half our size, yet we still can get around quite easily, is testament to the efficiency of the grid system. Your suggesting our lack of freeways is a result of bad planning, I think the opposite!