News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

[muzzamo]

surely that would be debatable given the size of some of the busway networks being built or already built interstate?

As I understand Brisbane has a obahn-like Northern and Suburn busway, with a tunnel linking the two underground in the city straight through, and plans to buid much more...

http://www.translink.com.au/qt/translin ... usway_main

And there is a video fly through here:

http://www.translink.com.au/qt/translin ... flythrough

[jk1237]

LOL trains are sexy, but when it comes down to it people would rather catch a bus.

ya reckon, i thought its the other way around. Buses are as boring as batshit, get held up in traffic, and as Ive noticed lately, driven by very grumpy people who dont know how to brake smoothly. This morning on the bus it took me 45 mins to get from home (stop 8 on Payneham rd, St Peters) to town for work caus Payneham Rd was its usual clogged up car infested mess. Give me a train line or light rail anyday please.

[Xaragmata]

LOL trains are sexy, but when it comes down to it people would rather catch a bus.

ya reckon, i thought its the other way around. Buses are as boring as batshit, get held up in traffic, and as Ive noticed lately, driven by very grumpy people who dont know how to brake smoothly. This morning on the bus it took me 45 mins to get from home (stop 8 on Payneham rd, St Peters) to town for work caus Payneham Rd was its usual clogged up car infested mess. Give me a train line or light rail anyday please.

Highways Department (of the day) had a plan to widen Payneham Road, but was frustrated by opposition to property acquisition &
demolition (esp the 2 storey shops opposite Maid & Magpie, which is a choke point). Again, they purchased properties to widen Magill
Road form Maid & Magpie to Osmond Terrace, but were frustrated by opposition, & rented out the acquired properties to low income
tenants (eg 5MMM-FM now DDD or something). Similar opposition at the intersection of The Parade & Portrush Road - 2 storey
building frustrated the Highways Dept, & the dog leg remains.

[monotonehell]

LOL trains are sexy, but when it comes down to it people would rather catch a bus.

ya reckon, i thought its the other way around. Buses are as boring as batshit, get held up in traffic, and as Ive noticed lately, driven by very grumpy people who dont know how to brake smoothly. This morning on the bus it took me 45 mins to get from home (stop 8 on Payneham rd, St Peters) to town for work caus Payneham Rd was its usual clogged up car infested mess. Give me a train line or light rail anyday please.

My comment was humorously directed at the three posts above it who all said they preferred buses. But having read some papers on the subject, it appears that unless a train is within walking distance or is a much faster option to a long drive, people prefer a no-transfer bus service.

You have to admit though, that the traffic jams along the Lower NE / Payneham road / North Tce (Kent Town) are the reason the bus services suck, not the buses themselves. Would it help if the Payneham Road services were split into loops and made use of the OBahn corridor entering at Klemzig and Paradise?

Highways Department (of the day) had a plan to widen Payneham Road, but was frustrated by opposition to property acquisition &
demolition (esp the 2 storey shops opposite Maid & Magpie, which is a choke point). Again, they purchased properties to widen Magill
Road form Maid & Magpie to Osmond Terrace, but were frustrated by opposition, & rented out the acquired properties to low income
tenants (eg 5MMM-FM now DDD or something). Similar opposition at the intersection of The Parade & Portrush Road - 2 storey
building frustrated the Highways Dept, & the dog leg remains.

Seems to be the commonality with many of the congestion problems we're facing these days. We could have taken pre-emptive action years ago but political groups opposed it. People don't like forced acquisition for some reason (sarcasm)

[AG]

You have to admit though, that the traffic jams along the Lower NE / Payneham road / North Tce (Kent Town) are the reason the bus services suck, not the buses themselves. Would it help if the Payneham Road services were split into loops and made use of the OBahn corridor entering at Klemzig and Paradise?

The Payneham Road buses already mostly serve Paradise Interchange (the 174, 177 and 178 terminate there except the N services). Their main job is to serve the corridor that you mentioned and the local areas beyond Glynde, rather than serving as a fast service into the city. They basically serve as feeder bus routes at the Paradise Interchange end. It's similar to the 271 and 273 which use North East Road from the city and terminate at Tea Tree Plaza and Paradise Interchange respectively.

[urban]

Simple solution for Payneham, Magill, the Parade, Goodwood, Unley etc:
Buy a shitload more buses and change the lane closest to the kerb into a permanent bus lane. Bus route times would now be quicker than car times. Buses would be highly patronised allowing them to run at 5 min or better intervals making them more popular still.

[Edgar]

It has become so clear that driving is more practical than anything else.

As much as I would like to take the public transport to the city, it is just at its disadvantages regardless.

The Train is so unreliable, they don't cover most suburban areas well enough.

The Tram is perhaps the best public transportation in South Australia, but it only has one route.

The Buses are the most reliable, but subject to road traffic conditions, which makes it one of the least reliable in terms of service time schedules.



For people like me and Howie, who lives on the north western suburbs, there are no other choice rather than to drive to the city everyday:

20 mins driving vs more than 1 hour bus (if there is another accident at Torrens Rd + 1/2 more hour) :wank:

20 mins driving vs 30mins walk to nearest rail station + another 20-30mins ride to the city :wank:



And with the union stopping the services every now and then to discuss pay rise, it has become the shittiest and shameless public transport in Australia.

:wank: :wank: :wank:

Pity the government are more interested in other things rather than these.

[Norman]

It has become so clear that driving is more practical than anything else.

As much as I would like to take the public transport to the city, it is just at its disadvantages regardless.

The Train is so unreliable, they don't cover most suburban areas well enough.

The Tram is perhaps the best public transportation in South Australia, but it only has one route.

The Buses are the most reliable, but subject to road traffic conditions, which makes it one of the least reliable in terms of service time schedules.



For people like me and Howie, who lives on the north western suburbs, there are no other choice rather than to drive to the city everyday:

20 mins driving vs more than 1 hour bus (if there is another accident at Torrens Rd + 1/2 more hour) :wank:

20 mins driving vs 30mins walk to nearest rail station + another 20-30mins ride to the city :wank:



And with the union stopping the services every now and then to discuss pay rise, it has become the shittiest and shameless public transport in Australia.

:wank: :wank: :wank:

Pity the government are more interested in other things rather than these.

What suburb do you live in? There are a few express buses for most of the day, such as the 253X and 254X that run express from Arndale along Torrens Road.

[Edgar]

If I am to take the express bus I have to catch 2 bus with stopover at Arndale. Not forgetting getting caught at the rail crossing during peak hours ALL THE TIME at Torrens Rd Brompton.

[monotonehell]

Simple solution for Payneham, Magill, the Parade, Goodwood, Unley etc:
Buy a shitload more buses and change the lane closest to the kerb into a permanent bus lane. Bus route times would now be quicker than car times. Buses would be highly patronised allowing them to run at 5 min or better intervals making them more popular still.

That would be good except that roads like Payneham are only 2 lanes. There's no room for a busway. People need to turn left or right.

[AG]

Simple solution for Payneham, Magill, the Parade, Goodwood, Unley etc:
Buy a shitload more buses and change the lane closest to the kerb into a permanent bus lane. Bus route times would now be quicker than car times. Buses would be highly patronised allowing them to run at 5 min or better intervals making them more popular still.

That would be good except that roads like Payneham are only 2 lanes. There's no room for a busway. People need to turn left or right.

The bus lane can be used for traffic turning left. It is legal to use a bus lane to turn onto another road if you enter the lane within a couple of hundred metres of the turnoff. Just means you'll have to ban right turns to prevent the normal road lane from clogging up I suppose.

[monotonehell]

Simple solution for Payneham, Magill, the Parade, Goodwood, Unley etc:
Buy a shitload more buses and change the lane closest to the kerb into a permanent bus lane. Bus route times would now be quicker than car times. Buses would be highly patronised allowing them to run at 5 min or better intervals making them more popular still.

That would be good except that roads like Payneham are only 2 lanes. There's no room for a busway. People need to turn left or right.

The bus lane can be used for traffic turning left. It is legal to use a bus lane to turn onto another road if you enter the lane within a couple of hundred metres of the turnoff. Just means you'll have to ban right turns to prevent the normal road lane from clogging up I suppose.

Hrmz... maybe.. do you see this getting past motorist groups?

How about (for the NE at least) making Main North East Road and Lwr North East Roads one way, one going NE and the other going SW, with a bus lane on each? Oh yeah that one wont cause any controversy (sarcasm)

[AG]

Hrmz... maybe.. do you see this getting past motorist groups?

How about (for the NE at least) making Main North East Road and Lwr North East Roads one way, one going NE and the other going SW, with a bus lane on each? Oh yeah that one wont cause any controversy (sarcasm)

Realistically, it wouldn't make it past motorist groups. The only place it would be justified is if there were several buses going by every minute of the day as is the case in George Street in Sydney, but the level of buses on Payneham Road isn't anywhere near enough to justify a lane conversion, not even at the city end where Magill Road buses and the 291 join up with the Payneham Road routes.

[mm42]

Lack of vision: Where are the forward plans for Adelaide in 20 years time ? The last time this sort of planning was done was in about 1968 with the MATS Plan. This had staged costed plans through to 1986. Beijing has plans to triple its subway network by 2050, complete with route maps. Adelaide now only seems to have ad hoc plans. For example the South Road tramstop has just been rebuilt. Now it's about to be demolished and replaced with a (much better) overpass.

Political realities: In democracies it is nearly suicidal for governments to
- bulldoze houses to make new freeways
- convert railways or tramways into busways
The only freeways that can now be built in tunnels, or areas where land was reserved years ago, or in outer urban and rural areas
We're stuck with making our current railways and tramways better, and enhancing the bus network

Energy: Since 2001, the international oil price has gone up by USD 10/barrel each year. This translates into an extra 10c/L for the Australian petrol or diesel price. The era of cheap mobility is coming to an end. Is this taken into account when planning in SA ? It certainly is in WA. We will still have energy for our mobility, but it won't be anywhere near as cheap as we have been used to in the past.

Physical capacity: It may look like something's happening to create a new lane of traffic with a clearway. Arterial roads can only handle 800 vehicles per lane per hour, and freeways 2000 per lane per hour. A railway with 6-car trains every 3 minutes can handle 18,000 per track per hour, so a double-track railway is equivalent to an 18-lane freeway. New city offices have one worker per 15 square meters of office space. A new office building with say 2000 workers creates a demand for an additional 2.5 lanes of arterial road, if all the new workers drive. It is now much cheaper to provide the extra capacity by adding new buses and trains than to provide extra road space. A King William Street subway needs to be promoted as the equivalent to an 18-lane freeway, which will take pressure off the road network.

Social preference: There is generally a rail preference factor of 30% over buses, ie to convert a bus system into a rail system increase patronage by 30%. There is little point in providing high capacity in a bus service if people don't want to use it. In WA, the lowest penetration of public transport has been the southern suburbs, served by high-frequency express buses. This is why their Southern Suburbs Railway was built. On a train, people can read, which they can't do on a bus because of the movement. It's less onerous to wait at a station than at a bus stop on a busy road, surrounded by the exhaust and noise of passing vehicles. Furthermore, WA research showed that people were prepared to walk only 200 m to their destination at the city end, but 800m at their home end. That is why they built the Esplanade station within only 500m of the Perth station. In Adelaide, it's a 400m walk from the railway station to the corner of King William Street and Rundle Mall, where the MATS Plan proposed to build a subway station. Hopefully, the new tram helps reduce this distance.

Park-and-ride: Car prices have reduced considerably over recent years, and car ownership levels have increased. Station car parks are close to full, because a car-train combined journey allows other things to be done, such as buying from the shop, or picking up kids from childcare. The Crafers park-n-ride bus car park is also frequently full. Tiny carparks such as the 230 at the new Oaklands interchange are grossly inadequate. Melbourne has 20,000 parking spaces by its stations. Perth has up to 1000 at a single station (Murdoch).

[Will409]

mm42, I have to correct you on the concrete sleepers on the Belair line. They ARE gauge convertable. All concrete sleepers that have ever been inserted on the suburban system (as well as the Outer Harbour and Belair line, the Gawler Central line around Islington as well as nearly every level crossing) are dual gauge.