[U/C] 88 O'Connell Street | 63m | 13, 13 and 15 Levels | Mixed Use

[silverscreen]

I respect your personal view, but unless its backed up with something stronger anyone's personal view is only as valuable as mine or the pussy cat's. As for the building, as the saying goes, if you like this sort of thing, then this is the sort of thing you'll like, but you cant make a solid business case out of that.
Think I'll take a break now - this is going round in circles and I need to concentrate on what my response will be.

[ynotsfables]

When you've finished your break, i'd like to mention that i see what your trying to do.
I have a question, This project along with Victoria Park are so controversial that it scares me. What can best suit that vacant piece of land that could not be worked out within a twenty year period ?
In the meantime i'll try think of three more reasons why it should be built so you can add to your submission.

Then again it may not be my reasons that you 're after but of someone more qualified to give you an answer.

[stumpjumper]

Adelaide City Council has approved developments on this site on at least 3 occasions in the last few years. The NIMBY's whom you claim are stifling the development of the site had no problem with those approvals. The key to success: the applications complied with the development plan.

So, why is this shopping centre so important that the govt has given it Major Project status?

Neither Planning SA nor the Premiers Dept are able to provide criteria for Major Project status.

North Adelaide does not need another supermarket. The two there already are never crowded - their car parks are never full, and the larger of the two had numerous vacant tenancies (well before the renovations).

If North Adelaide doesn't need a bigger supermarket now or in the foreseeable future (I'm assuming that our defacto Premier Mr Don Farrell of the Shop, Distributive & Allied Employees' Association will eventually have to bow to public opinion and let us have extended shopping hours like the rest of the world), then what is the rationale for building it?

Is it intended to capture people from the northern suburbs before the reach the CBD? Who knows? No business plan has ever been made public.

The point is, if Makris is allowed to build his boring copy of a copy of a copy of a 6 level shopping centre on this site, in complete contravention of the Development Plan for the location, the I demand the right to buy the land either side and behind WHEREVER YOU LIVE, and across the road as well, and on these sites, construct whatever I like, which happens to be 6 storey buildings to which there will be truck deliveries and rubbish removals day and night as well as hundreds of light traffic movements per hour.

What? You object? Amenity? Property values? Out of my way - you're nothing but a f**king NIMBY.

Mr Rann, give me Major Development status immediately, please.

As silverscreen has requested, would someone please justify this proposal. And not by saying we're all sick of it, so let Makris have what he wants.

Where is the clause in the planning legislation that says:

'Should the combination of public opposition to a project and the intransigence of the developer cause delay, and that delay has reached XX period of time, then the developer shall be entitled to build the project in any way he or she likes and regardless of any further opposition."?

[MaximumForce]

Stumpjumper, are you an Adelaide City Councilor? Or in some way tied in with the council?

[ynotsfables]

C'mon man when Lecornu's was there they had trucks and rubbish leaving the premises too, i'm afraid the argument on the other side of the fence has to be equally as convincing, and so far it all seems like sensationalized bullshit.
The question is why is this piece of land undeveloped ?
why can't we work it out ?
why is there one excuse after the other?
Why is this taking 20 years ?
Secondly with a growing city such as ours you don't think a hotel of international standards would be a good idea there. To call it an oversized supermarket is a bit condescending, as well as being blatently untrue.
Apartments would n't be a good thing either ?
Vibrancy, entertainment and attractions, specialty shops all no good ?
If having a prime piece of land vacant for 20 years, that has done nothing for the community appart from being an eyesore, not warrent major project status then you tell me what does and i'm sure you'll find something becuase it seems your addiment for this to fail regardless.
Like i said in a previous post until someone comes up with a better proposal i fully endorse this.

[silverscreen]

ynotsfables, stop kidding around. You know who the goodies are here and who the baddies are. Are you really on the side of the dummy-spitting developers who get development approval then sit down & work out that there wont be enough noughts at the end of their profit to go ahead? Do you really want a govt that ignores the individual and gives favours to someone who could buy & sell you & me (or the proverbial grandmother) a million times and still sleep at night?
If you happen to believe in fairness, democracy, logic, citizen's rights, santa claus, the easter bunny or even the tooth fairy, you've got to see this is crash & burn town planning. BTW, there's no international hotel this time. I think the heli-pad was a bit too expensive. Like I keep saying, you haven't read the report, and you dont really have a handle on this. You're just running on emotion and gut feeling, trotting out the same old urban myths and platitudes which sadly, dont move the debate forward much at all.

[omada]

Streetjumper said: The point is, if Makris is allowed to build his boring copy of a copy of a copy of a 6 level shopping centre on this site, in complete contravention of the Development Plan for the location, the I demand the right to buy the land either side and behind WHEREVER YOU LIVE, and across the road as well, and on these sites, construct whatever I like, which happens to be 6 storey buildings to which there will be truck deliveries and rubbish removals day and night as well as hundreds of light traffic movements per hour.

Streetjumper, if people (read: NIMBY's) don't like noise and activity - two UNAVOIDABLE facts of life in a CITY - then they can MOVE - move to Stirling or some other toff nosed, white, baby boomer area...

[silverscreen]

Love the mature, informed discussion here. Reminds me of kindy

[omada]

I was merely illustrating my point... oohh better go I have finger painting on now

[jk1237]

OMG, truck deliveries, rubbish removal and hundreds of light traffic movements will impact stuff-all to a street that is basically an arterial road anyway. How many people actually live on O'Connell St, that might be adversely affected from this most horrible activity, that as omada quite rightly pointed out, is an unavoidable activity of inner city life. The North Adl Village over the road doesnt seem to create traffic jams, how many spaces in that carpark.
Maybe North Adelaide should revert back to horse and cart, or ban cars entering into the whole suburb. Oh all except for the North Adelaide society who I bet would have a large proportion of 4-wheel drives, and wouldn't lower themselves to take public transport, eg anti-tram, Ann Moran.
As Ive mentioned before, North Adl has some streets that have a village atmosphere, that need to be protected, but O'Connell St is not one of them

[ynotsfables]

ynotsfables, stop kidding around. You know who the goodies are here and who the baddies are. Are you really on the side of the dummy-spitting developers who get development approval then sit down & work out that there wont be enough noughts at the end of their profit to go ahead? Do you really want a govt that ignores the individual and gives favours to someone who could buy & sell you & me (or the proverbial grandmother) a million times and still sleep at night?
If you happen to believe in fairness, democracy, logic, citizen's rights, santa claus, the easter bunny or even the tooth fairy, you've got to see this is crash & burn town planning. BTW, there's no international hotel this time. I think the heli-pad was a bit too expensive. Like I keep saying, you haven't read the report, and you dont really have a handle on this. You're just running on emotion and gut feeling, trotting out the same old urban myths and platitudes which sadly, dont move the debate forward much at all.

Ok silverscreen i will read the entire proposal and ill get back to you.
As a citizen though i'm excersising my democratic right to support this project.
As for this project crashing and burning that all depends who wishes to sabotage it.
Last but not least i have n't really asked you what you think should be done with the Le Cornu site ?

[Shuz]

Why dont we just build a freaking 300m tower on the site.

[ynotsfables]

Silverscreen,
I've now read the Makris report consisting of 77 pages (wich is the summerised version otherwise its 333 pages long).
I've also read the community information report http://www.planning.sa.gov.au/go/develo ... h-adelaide

Have i missed anything ?

I would like to mention that from what i have read all aspects seem to be covered from

* Impact on local and state herritage.
* Waste management
* Urban design and streetscapes
* Environmental effects such as noise, traffic, ventilation and stormwater drainage.
* Compliance with green building considerations.
* Infrastructure of public utility services and fire saftey all seem feasible.

Is there another report that i must read that outlines the disadvatages, if so let me know ?
As from a business and profit point of view i'm disapointed that the hotel is'nt going ahead you r'e right there.
However if this is a residential and retail outlet surely there is a potential solid market for growth. I'm no expert on the matter but i do know that running a business involves a certain amount of risk, so what makes you sure that this will crash and burn Makris seems to be quite an accomplished developer.

[silverscreen]

3 storeys - five at most, but built up in the centre. Self-sufficient in parking with industry standard ratios to work out parking allocation and not the mickey-mouse numbers theyr're using at the moment to justify just 256 public car parks. Make the parking free so that patrons and staff working late dont have to trawl the streets late at night looking for safe parking. Any mix you like - shops, apartments, offices, cafes etc. No blue tits on the top for preference but if it turns him on I guess we could live with them. Justify having 4 swimming pools between 47 apartments, and ensure a "green" building. eg. stormwater, grey water and noise management, sorted. Put the service lane inside the complex instead of down the adjoining residential street. People living in that little street shouldn't have the ass-end of a new building with all the garbage etc inflicted on them.Change the trading hours from 3am every day to the same hours as the other pubs, & cafes in the street.
On the technical side the Makris Group's proposal fails to provide any affordable housing as required under the State's Strategic Plan; several design elements dont conform to the Australian Standard; environmentally, it doesn't accord with many relevant targets set out in the South Australian Strategic Plan; It's well over the Plot Ratio and fails to conform in height, bulk, scale and design, with the City of Adelaide Plan, which is signed off by the Govt. It's just flawed - all 31 metres of it.
Lets have development - but let's build with people in mind, not profit!!!!!

[Pikey]

Ok, this has gone far enough.

Let's take breather people.

Thread locked.