News & Discussion: Trams

[soneilll]

I am concerned that we are entering a new phase of passenger frustrations as the tram numbers continue to increase each week. This morning I witnessed adults and school kids becoming embroiled in "play ground" squabbles over standing on peoples feet due to being wedged like cattle against every surface of the tram. From 8:00am to 9:00 am, people trying to head in to the city are constantly subject to "full - no pick up" trams which results in our children being late for school (with good excuse) and people late for work (bad for the economy). I now read the blow article which concerns me greatly. What are the solutions here??

Get the old trams back in to service?
Buy more trams?
Ban children?
Ban Adults?
HELP!!!!

>>>>>>

ABC Article Feb 19th 08

The State Opposition says it has a document confirming there would be too few seats on Adelaide's new trams even before they went into operation.

The briefing was written in 2005 by the Transport Department for South Australia's Transport Minister Pat Conlon.

It lists concerns about seating, a forecast increase in passengers and mentions passengers' reluctance to travel while standing.

Opposition transport spokesman Duncan McFetridge says it shows the Government knew there would be problems.

"The Government was warned by an internal ministerial [memo] two-and-a-half years ago that they needed to have adequate capacity for increased passengers on the trams," he said.

"They were warned two-and-a-half years ago there'd be an increase of about 50 per cent in passengers on trams.

"So to buy these trams that we've got now was a stupid political decision."

[Will409]

In the short term, getting atleast one two car set of H class to cover the peak periods would be good but in the long term, another 3-5 Flexis will be needed. However, increasing the size of the tram fleet and running the line at an increased frequency can prove difficult. Another option currently being investigated is increasing the length of the Flexis with an extra unit. The tram depot at Glengowrie now has more operational trams allocated there then at any time since it was built in 1986. The depot is currently stuffed full of trams with the H class stored in what is known as the 'south yard' at the back of the depot, in the open, while they are not in use. To increase the size of the tram fleet, you would need to increase the depot size with atleast one (preferably two) new depot roads and an extension to the current shed. To do this would mean building on the current SAJC carpark next to the depot which is largely empty all year.

Another issue is an apparent regulation that the boom gates at the level crossings can't be opened and closed more then once every 5 minutes because apparently this would cause traffic build up on local roads as well as South Road which will be getting a new tramway overpass in the next 2-3 years. The trams themselves are good (better then nearly everything I rode on in Melbourne) but are struggling with the sheer load.

[Edgar]

Another issue is an apparent regulation that the boom gates at the level crossings can't be opened and closed more then once every 5 minutes because apparently this would cause traffic build up on local roads as well as South Road which will be getting a new tramway overpass in the next 2-3 years.

So they decided to close the gate and hold it for more than 5 minutes just so that all trains, including freight, which is still 1-2 minutes away can pass without opening and closing the gates in the next 5 minutes?

It does not make sense because holding up the close gates will still cause traffic build up, classic example, is Torrens Rd at Brompton.

[jk1237]

1 short term solution could be to run a shuttle from the Forestville crossover to city in peak hours (if theres enough trams, maybe just use single H's), but a long term solution is to add an extra section to the flexities. Grade separation (bridges replacing level crossings) would be great but theyre not cheap.
Something will need to be done in the next 6 months, caus the upgrade has proven too successful, and it will just keep getting busier over the next few years.
PS liberals, Id shut up if I were u, because you guys would have left it as a tramline with only H's running around on falling apart tracks, ending on the edge of the city at Vic Sq. If there was a report to say that tram patronage may increase by 50% after the upgrade, how the F@#K could any organisation with even half a brain, ever oppose a project such as the tram extension.

[jk1237]

Btw, there was about 7 people (including me) left stranded yesterday morning at my bus stop as the bus was full (even with another 7 stops to get to town). Luckily, there was another about 3 mins after that we could get on, and also when I got a coffee at 1 of those cafes in the Railway station concourse at about 11:00am, I noticed there were hundreds and hundreds getting off trains into town, almost peak hour like. So there are congestions everywhere, I put it down to 1st week of uni, but I do realise tram congestion is a big issue.

[monotonehell]

The OBahn's suffering from the years of lack of funding just like the trains and the tram. I've been waiting for a while for the new buses to get through R&D. Meanwhile the school of '85 fleet's still just holding on... Every now and then I get on one of the two original buses, the ones with the fabric covered plastic seats instead of benches.

I think accessibility is getting in the way of efficient PT. You need to take accessibility to a point where it helps those who need it and not beyond. The new low floored buses have a lot of wasted space to accommodate 3 wheelchairs, with fold down seats to take their place. Meanwhile the back part of the bus has several steps up to a cramped few seats that most able bodied persons have trouble getting to. To make matters worse the back two rows are so close to the ceiling that people regularly hit their heads. The Flexitys have similar problems, large open areas with HUGE box shaped seats that seem to take up more room than they need to accommodate two seated passengers. They are also very uncomfortable to sit on.

Most people who these designs are attempting to accommodate take taxis. They often can't get to the bus/tram/train stops, let alone wait while they gamble that the next service will have a ramp. Perhaps it's time to think about some kind of subsidised taxi system for those who need it? Instead of making the current PT designs comply to accessibility regs that cause great discomfort to and inefficiencies for the cattle.

Both the new trams and the new bus layouts aren't at all ergonomic to their purpose, were they designed for some other alien lifeforms?

[muzzamo]

Both the new trams and the new bus layouts aren't at all ergonomic to their purpose, were they designed for some other alien lifeforms?

The latest busses are actually quite reasonably designed. Compare with adelaides early low floor busses in terms of seating space and you will see what i mean.

For example
- no one sits backwards
- The seats heading upwards at the back are to minimise vandalism, the back of the bus is completely visible from the front.
- really not that much space is wasted with the seats, the foldout seats mean that it is still relatively efficient.
- Artics have low floor only at the front so that the back half has no wasted space whatsoever

[skyliner]

And is the city tram track to grow - any news?

ADELAIDE - CITY ON THE MOVE

[Will409]

Havn't heard anything down my grapevine because there hasn't been any news released by anyone. At this point in time, the only way we will find out if we are going to get any further extensions is in the next State Budget.

[shiftaling]

Hi all, first-time poster, long-time lurker. I really like the quality of discussion on here, and being able to keep abreast of what's happening in our little best kept secret
My on expanding the tram network. I'd like to see it up O'Connell to a fair way up Prospect Road, also Henley Beach Road linking along Military Road to the Grange Line (which would be converted). Also up the Parade. Once i would have thought all this impossible but now I thrill to the sound of two bells whenever I cross King William Street these days
Oh, and by way of self introduction I'm a part time NIMBY (I have a three metre gray concrete wall not two steps from my front door) but love playing SimCity as much as anyone Preserve a funky art deco laneway rather than installing yet another Hudson's foyer, please, but I'd take a nice tall building over some light industrial rusty crap any day

[Shuz]

On Monday I was supposed to catch the 820ish tram into town from my stop, which had about 15 people waiting at it, and we were subjected to waiting longer because a tram had gone by that was full. When we all boarded the next, I believe it was full again after the Black Forest stop, and I was quite literally 'packed in', no room to budge. It only got worse each stop we went by, seeing the sight of 20-30-40 passengers all rejected (again) that they couldnt get on the trams. Let alone the conjestion faced in the city alone.

The installation of a 4th section to all the trams needs to happen now and no later than NOW. The conjestion is just chaotic.

[Düsseldorfer]

On Monday I was supposed to catch the 820ish tram into town from my stop, which had about 15 people waiting at it, and we were subjected to waiting longer because a tram had gone by that was full. When we all boarded the next, I believe it was full again after the Black Forest stop, and I was quite literally 'packed in', no room to budge. It only got worse each stop we went by, seeing the sight of 20-30-40 passengers all rejected (again) that they couldnt get on the trams. Let alone the conjestion faced in the city alone.

The installation of a 4th section to all the trams needs to happen now and no later than NOW. The conjestion is just chaotic.

I think Adelaide needs some Siemens NF10 class trams, they use these trams over in Düsseldorf and most of them are around 50m in length, i find them also heaps more spacious than Adelaide's trams...or they could just order more flexity's and couple 2 of them together. A flexity, even with the addition of another middle section might still be too small, but they can't make the trams too long or they won't fit into the city stops unless they make them longer as well.

[AG]

On Monday I was supposed to catch the 820ish tram into town from my stop, which had about 15 people waiting at it, and we were subjected to waiting longer because a tram had gone by that was full. When we all boarded the next, I believe it was full again after the Black Forest stop, and I was quite literally 'packed in', no room to budge. It only got worse each stop we went by, seeing the sight of 20-30-40 passengers all rejected (again) that they couldnt get on the trams. Let alone the conjestion faced in the city alone.

The installation of a 4th section to all the trams needs to happen now and no later than NOW. The conjestion is just chaotic.

I think Adelaide needs some Siemens NF10 class trams, they use these trams over in Düsseldorf and most of them are around 50m in length, i find them also heaps more spacious than Adelaide's trams...or they could just order more flexity's and couple 2 of them together. A flexity, even with the addition of another middle section might still be too small, but they can't make the trams too long or they won't fit into the city stops unless they make them longer as well.

I don't remember which thread I mentioned this in, but the new platforms north of Victoria Square on the new extension are only 38m long. The current Flexity trams are just over 30m long.

[Düsseldorfer]

On Monday I was supposed to catch the 820ish tram into town from my stop, which had about 15 people waiting at it, and we were subjected to waiting longer because a tram had gone by that was full. When we all boarded the next, I believe it was full again after the Black Forest stop, and I was quite literally 'packed in', no room to budge. It only got worse each stop we went by, seeing the sight of 20-30-40 passengers all rejected (again) that they couldnt get on the trams. Let alone the conjestion faced in the city alone.

The installation of a 4th section to all the trams needs to happen now and no later than NOW. The conjestion is just chaotic.

I think Adelaide needs some Siemens NF10 class trams, they use these trams over in Düsseldorf and most of them are around 50m in length, i find them also heaps more spacious than Adelaide's trams...or they could just order more flexity's and couple 2 of them together. A flexity, even with the addition of another middle section might still be too small, but they can't make the trams too long or they won't fit into the city stops unless they make them longer as well.

I don't remember which thread I mentioned this in, but the new platforms north of Victoria Square on the new extension are only 38m long. The current Flexity trams are just over 30m long.

Either way i think they need to extend the city stops to be at least 50-60m long, at that length there would be sufficient room for 2 flexity's and more than enough for a 4th section.

also, installing new real-time info displays would be nice : next tram--2min* :wank:

[Omicron]

Welcome, Mr. Shift! I am rather proud that you seek to reduce the influence of the godawful Hudson's upon our fine city.