News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

[jk1237]

cruise, are you able to video this o'bahn dance of m-hell, and post it on here. Im very curious

[Norman]

Until they demolish the O-Bahn of course.

*awaits O-bahn dance*

*Performs OBahn dance (with lyrics) on Norman's head*

You disgust me with that German grammar. Disgraceful.

[monotonehell]

You disgust me with that German grammar. Disgraceful.

Help me? I have only school boy German.

[Cruise]

cruise, are you able to video this o'bahn dance of m-hell, and post it on here. Im very curious

I wish i could, i want to see it

[Wayno]

Adelaide's density is 615/km² (1592.8/sq mi)

Speaking of this, does anyone have a population density map for the Greater Metro Area? I've only been able to find one for the Square mile and North Adelaide. Like this:

The ABS website is probably your best bet. lots of population density stats from the last census...

[monotonehell]

The ABS website is probably your best bet. lots of population density stats from the last census...

Cheers guys, I'd already searched the ABS site for minutes and FAILED. But AtD pointed me to the Adelaide Social Atlas document and low and behold on page 9 is exactly what I want. Unfortunately it confirmed what I suspected, Adelaide is a big flat sprawl making PT difficult until we do some social engineering and encourage more denser pockets of population. (Yes I see the joke there, no you shouldn't post it Omicron or Wayno )

[ozisnowman]

I think what Bender is trying to get across is that our public transportation system is overdependent on the use of buses. That is particularly true on the long bus routes that run north to south across the city, those including the 22x series of buses serving Main North Road, the 21x and the 72x series heading south. What there needs to be on these longer routes is a shift from the so called express bus routes which get caught in inner city traffic to a combination of slow and fast train services served by feeder bus routes, and the excess bus capacity shifted to areas where they are needed.

I also agree with the fact that some buses have entrances that are too small. The buses really need to be allocated more efficiently, as there are some long buses going to quiet routes such as the 291 while there are tiny buses on some of the other busier routes such as the 143, 145 and 146.

I have been advocating for such a system for ages. Government just doesnt want to listen as it has outserviced the bus routes
to private contracters who compete against rail services directly. Take for example the 721X which is express from City to Norlunga Centre and the
Express Train to Norlunga Centre... I know some people catch the bus further down king william and on grote street but surely they would not
be inconvenienced too much by catching the tram and then train if those services where frequent and the train was upgrade and fast.

[Omicron]

The ABS website is probably your best bet. lots of population density stats from the last census...

Cheers guys, I'd already searched the ABS site for minutes and FAILED. But AtD pointed me to the Adelaide Social Atlas document and low and behold on page 9 is exactly what I want. Unfortunately it confirmed what I suspected, Adelaide is a big flat sprawl making PT difficult until we do some social engineering and encourage more denser pockets of population. (Yes I see the joke there, no you shouldn't post it Omicron or Wayno )

Oh, boo!

[Wayno]

the Planning SA Website sure is interesting. Heaps of stats such as:
* percent of people using PT by local govt area,
* median distance travelled to work by LGA,
* etc...

http://www.planning.sa.gov.au/index.cfm ... BE12B42B83
Here's an example of their analysis (provided just for visual impact - visit the url above for full details)

planning-sa-analysis.JPG (53.83 KiB) Viewed 2637 times

This is a must read for all you guys who love spending your evenings designing the perfect PT system for Adelaide!

[Bulldozer]

Another interesting site is http://www.atlas.sa.gov.au - a Google Maps type application that allows you to view all sorts of government data.

[AtD]

Adding to the list:
http://abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/mf/2030.4/

Data from the 2006 Census in map form.

[cleverick]

If only we had some German influence, attitudes and ideas when it come to public transport in Aust. It would be sehr gut.

I have some good news for you, jk: I love Germany, and am heavily influenced by their thinking.
That's why I argue not for a train-tram along the Outer Harbour line, but for a tram down the middle of Port Road. It should have its own right of way, like in the north of the CBD. I would like to see the median strip re-developed into a linear park/wetlands thing, too. Since Port Road is a major thoroughfare, pedestrian scrambles would be inappropriate: instead pedestrian overpasses should be built at every station.
This would all contribute to a major rejuvination of the commerce in the region, and ultimately I can see "Port Boulevard" on par with the Champs Elysees for vibrancy.

Oh, and the choice of two railways into Town would mean that practically no one in the north west would ever have to drive to work again- sort of like in Germany, to return to the meaning of this post.

[cleverick]

Although you might not like some of my ideas. You'll find that Germany is very efficiently set out: there are dense cities, farmland, native woods and country towns within a stone's throw of each other.
I would like Victoria Park turned into Victoria Forest, I would like much of the north western suburbs returned to market gardening, I would like to see more high-rise apartments in satellite cities like the Port, the Bay, Elizabeth, Marion, and others, I would like to see an end to shopping malls (again like Marion), to be replaced by Rundle Mall/Hindley St-style developments, I would like to see the urban boundary drastically reduced, leaving behind Salisbury as a discrete entity...

Then Adelaide would look like Germany, and then German public transport would be possible. It is the density and distribution of German cities which make their population possible. Adelaide's 1/4acre blocks (even the sub-divided ones) just don't offer the population required to enable public transport. We really are doomed to use the car till this situation reverses itself.

[Norman]

I'm sure everyone wants to be like Germany (except their unemployment rate), but is it really suitable for a place like Adelaide? A place where suburban sprawl is a problem that won't go away for centuries? A city with an ever-expanding urban boundary? I think not.

[Omicron]

Although you might not like some of my ideas. You'll find that Germany is very efficiently set out: there are dense cities, farmland, native woods and country towns within a stone's throw of each other.
I would like Victoria Park turned into Victoria Forest, I would like much of the north western suburbs returned to market gardening, I would like to see more high-rise apartments in satellite cities like the Port, the Bay, Elizabeth, Marion, and others, I would like to see an end to shopping malls (again like Marion), to be replaced by Rundle Mall/Hindley St-style developments, I would like to see the urban boundary drastically reduced, leaving behind Salisbury as a discrete entity...

Then Adelaide would look like Germany, and then German public transport would be possible. It is the density and distribution of German cities which make their population possible. Adelaide's 1/4acre blocks (even the sub-divided ones) just don't offer the population required to enable public transport. We really are doomed to use the car till this situation reverses itself.

Do have fun compulsorily acquiring entire suburbs.