Ideas for a greater public transport system

[jk1237]

Edgar, what do you mean 'trams are unreliable in SA', im lost

I disagree about the 'el's', I think they suit the urban environment. Every single NY or Chicago TV show will show a scene of a street with an elevated subway, caus they look so interesting. The concrete skytrain in Bangkok however, is not very beautiful

Monorail - arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh. They look dumb, they're slow as, the versions we see around the world fit about 50 people max in them, and they're just inefficient. Proof is in the pudding regarding how many serious commuter monorails there are in the world. Its simply tom-foolery.
The hanging monorail in Germany looks a bit better however

[Düsseldorfer]

The hanging monorail in Germany looks a bit better however

There are a couple in the region i was living in, the old one in Wuppertal is kinda old and it sways when it is stopped, the newer one at the Dusseldorf Airport is much more modern and is fully automatic. I think Adelaide should stick to trams and/or underground metro for city transportation.

Schwebebahn (suspended monorail) in Wuppertal:


Skytrain at Düsseldorf Airport and Dortmund:

[monotonehell]

I disagree about the 'el's', I think they suit the urban environment. Every single NY or Chicago TV show will show a scene of a street with an elevated subway, caus they look so interesting. The concrete skytrain in Bangkok however, is not very beautiful

There haven't been operational El-s in New York for decades, with the last remaining abandoned platform being turned into a linear park. http://www.thehighline.org/

Chicago's elevated lines are often held up as an example of how not to do it as they are noisy as all hell, severely lowering the value of all the properties that they run past. But you're right, the Chicago trestles have become an icon of that city.

Monorail - arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh. They look dumb, they're slow as, the versions we see around the world fit about 50 people max in them, and they're just inefficient. Proof is in the pudding regarding how many serious commuter monorails there are in the world. Its simply tom-foolery.
The hanging monorail in Germany looks a bit better however

Looks? Well I don't know your tastes in aesthetics so I'll leave that one alone. I happen to think that a single beam looks much more attractive than a trestle. They do take up much less space than light rail, cost less to build, quieter, unable to derail, and can deal with steeper grades than light rail. Speed? How fast do you need a multi-stop inner CBD system to go? (You might note that the fastest train ever is a monorail ) Capacity? Again these are intended for CBD loops (like the 99C) where regularity is more important than capacity.

Monorails have pretty much the same advantages as light rail, but of their disadvantages the biggest is that they are not manufactured in commercial quantities so have similar problems to the OBahn with supply. Don't confuse commercial takeup with inefficiency. For every commercial standard we use there's a better way, it's just that the industry has adopted one way and it's difficult to change so much infrastructure.

[Ho Really]

A bus interchange on the RAH site?

An interchange on the western side of the Morphett Street Bridge with access to North Terrace (east-west) and Morphett Street (north-south). On the opposite side an extension of the Convention Centre. Further to the west of the interchange an entertainment precinct (Federation Square type plaza) and then the stadium (not the Marj). No interstate trains to Adelaide Station as suggested elsewhere. They won't fit and where would you clean and maintain them? Keep them at Keswick which would be revamped with better suburban access etc. Two lines to go underground from west of Morphett Street Bridge along North Terrace to your choice of direction (down Pulteney Street or East Parklands/Hutt Street) and to Keswick station. Add the Airport line with one stop at Keswick and then Adelaide and add bus access to Keswick (Richmond, Greenhill Roads and ANZAC Highway).

Cheers

[adam73837]

The hanging monorail in Germany looks a bit better however

There are a couple in the region i was living in, the old one in Wuppertal is kinda old and it sways when it is stopped, the newer one at the Dusseldorf Airport is much more modern and is fully automatic. I think Adelaide should stick to trams and/or underground metro for city transportation.

Sorry to mention it again, but I've asked for that Parklands underground from Adelaide Central Station many times before...
(Thanks for reminding me Düsseldorfer)

[jk1237]

There haven't been operational El-s in New York for decades, with the last remaining abandoned platform being turned into a linear park. http://www.thehighline.org/

I must debate that. I havent been to NYC, but I'm aware that with the NY subway system - Manhattan got rid of its el's decades ago and is underground only, but most of the borough's outside Manhattan, such as Queens and Brooklyn, are mainly elevated subways, such as in Chicago.

[Norman]

Just something I quickly whipped up...

[monotonehell]

There haven't been operational El-s in New York for decades, with the last remaining abandoned platform being turned into a linear park. http://www.thehighline.org/

I must debate that. I havent been to NYC, but I'm aware that with the NY subway system - Manhattan got rid of its el's decades ago and is underground only, but most of the borough's outside Manhattan, such as Queens and Brooklyn, are mainly elevated subways, such as in Chicago.

Quite right! I forgot about the outer boroughs. There are elevated tracks out there still.

[Edgar]

Edgar, what do you mean 'trams are unreliable in SA', im lost

to make it clearer, Trams in Adelaide are not reliable. That's my final say and I stand on my decision. Unless the government decides to increase the fleets.

[Omicron]

Edgar, what do you mean 'trams are unreliable in SA', im lost

to make it clearer, Trams in Adelaide are not reliable. That's my final say and I stand on my decision. Unless the government decides to increase the fleets.

I think I'm a bit confused, too - unreliability suggests either constant mechanical issues or persistent lateness beyond acceptable variances to schedule. I'd have thought the tram service rates more highly in both areas compared to either buses or trains.

[Omicron]

Ah, Mr. Edgar; I found your little tram experience in another thread, which goes some way to explaining things.

While it doesn't necessarily cancel out the negative experiences of others, I can honestly say that I've had nothing but positive experiences with the tram in recent memory.

[Cruise]

I can think of something that would make trains a far more attractive way to travel, May i suggest that the doors actually open when you try to open them?
I was travelling back from the city this morning on the outer harbor line to my parents house to pick up my car, And when the train pulled up to the station i couldn't get out! Then the chimes sounded so i had to run to the other door that was forced open by two other travellers on the train. I was very much like Indiana Jones escaping the temple of doom (except i didn't drop my hat in front of the door, and theatrically snatch it back)

[monotonehell]

I can think of something that would make trains a far more attractive way to travel...

O-Bahns!

May i suggest that the doors actually open when you try to open them?
I was travelling back from the city this morning on the outer harbor line to my parents house to pick up my car, And when the train pulled up to the station i couldn't get out! Then the chimes sounded so i had to run to the other door that was forced open by two other travellers on the train. I was very much like Indiana Jones escaping the temple of doom (except i didn't drop my hat in front of the door, and theatrically snatch it back)

Yes well this is just indicative of a poorly maintained transport system in general (also read 'poorly funded'). We have diesel locos from out of the ark, running on tracks that launched it. As much as I hate myself for agreeing with them, the Sunday Mail's mantra of "fix it Pat" applies here.

Resleepering some of the lines and getting the current fleet of 2000 and 3000s up to scratch would be a good stop gap. And while we're doing that, a properly planned and implemented review of the entire PT system is in order. Something that will see us into the "next century" (that we're already in).

Not just something that caters to the Sprawl. Something that does that but at the same time encourages transport corridors with high and medium density development. A PT system that serves the current paradigm as well as bringing on the next.

[urban]

Monorails and any other elevated transport system ruin the ground level experience. This is the main reason why they are unpopular

Other reasons include the need to provide lift access for less mobile people (DDA), the inconvenience of having to go up a level or down a level every time you want to get on or off.

To improve Adelaide's PT system:
1 Reduce our urban growth boundary;
2 Use the money saved by reducing the urban growth boundary to subsidise TOD's;
3 Improve efficiency of loading and unloading buses/obahn;
4 Reduce number of lanes in city for cars;
5 Upgrade heavy rail network;
5 Extend tram network.

[Cruise]

Here is some proof that urban planning in Adelaide is finally starting to head in the right direction:

http://www.playfordalive.com.au/playfor ... roject.htm
http://www.playfordalive.com.au/play...ve/project.htm