News & Discussion: Trams

[BillD]

Due to unscheduled maintenance on one of our Flexity's we've been treated to weekday peak action from H types 370 & 351.

Here they are crossing Sturt Creek on a brisk Autumn morning

[Will409]

109 has a damaged bumper.

[AG]

Good thing they decided to use 2 coupled H's for peak runs this time instead of the single H as they did several times last year, that caused a fair bit of delay on following services as well.

[Norman]

I heard 109 was back in service today?

[Cruise]

http://www.messengerwest.com.au/article ... _news.html

A CITY-Port tram line, with a connector to AAMI Stadium, has been backed by the Property Council of Australia.

The PCA says land bordering the proposed tram lines, particularly at Cheltenham Racecourse and West Lakes, would become prime sites for higher density housing.

In a "position paper" released last week, the PCA called on the State Government to build up to 200,000 new homes near rail lines at Port Adelaide, Glenelg and Marion, to take pressure off Adelaide's roads and to reduce carbon emissions.

PCA executive director Nathan Paine said these "transit-oriented developments" would cater for an increase in the state's population driven by the mining boom.

"Few people still question that Adelaide is set for unprecedented population growth, and given the environmental pressures that are also growing, it is imperative we look at new ways of doing things," he said. Under the PCA's proposal, the existing 21km Outer Harbor heavy rail line would be replaced with light rail connecting to the existing North Tce tram line.

A new tram line would also start at Woodville Railway Station, run down West Lakes Blvd to AAMI Stadium, West Lakes, and loop back to Woodville.

The Portside Messenger reported in March that Port Adelaide Enfield Council was leading a coalition of western suburbs' councils lobbying the State Government for a City-Port Adelaide tram line.

Mayor Gary Johanson said he was encouraged by the PCA's support.

"Obviously we've been pushing this for a while, it's what we need and we're really keen to make it happen," he said.

Mr Johanson said the PCA's call for a new line to AAMI Stadium was "a brilliant idea".

"West Lakes Shopping Centre is expanding and it's bringing more and more people all the time."

The State Government has previously been uncommitted about a tram line to Port Adelaide while rejecting a proposed extension to AAMI Stadium.

However, Urban Development and Planning Minister Paul Holloway's spokesman Owen Brown said the government supported the concept of transit-orientated development and would consider the PCA's recommendations.

[Cruise]

http://www.messengerwest.com.au/article ... _news.html

A CITY-Port tram line, with a connector to AAMI Stadium, has been backed by the Property Council of Australia.

The PCA says land bordering the proposed tram lines, particularly at Cheltenham Racecourse and West Lakes, would become prime sites for higher density housing.

In a "position paper" released last week, the PCA called on the State Government to build up to 200,000 new homes near rail lines at Port Adelaide, Glenelg and Marion, to take pressure off Adelaide's roads and to reduce carbon emissions.

PCA executive director Nathan Paine said these "transit-oriented developments" would cater for an increase in the state's population driven by the mining boom.

"Few people still question that Adelaide is set for unprecedented population growth, and given the environmental pressures that are also growing, it is imperative we look at new ways of doing things," he said. Under the PCA's proposal, the existing 21km Outer Harbor heavy rail line would be replaced with light rail connecting to the existing North Tce tram line.

A new tram line would also start at Woodville Railway Station, run down West Lakes Blvd to AAMI Stadium, West Lakes, and loop back to Woodville.

The Portside Messenger reported in March that Port Adelaide Enfield Council was leading a coalition of western suburbs' councils lobbying the State Government for a City-Port Adelaide tram line.

Mayor Gary Johanson said he was encouraged by the PCA's support.

"Obviously we've been pushing this for a while, it's what we need and we're really keen to make it happen," he said.

Mr Johanson said the PCA's call for a new line to AAMI Stadium was "a brilliant idea".

"West Lakes Shopping Centre is expanding and it's bringing more and more people all the time."

The State Government has previously been uncommitted about a tram line to Port Adelaide while rejecting a proposed extension to AAMI Stadium.

However, Urban Development and Planning Minister Paul Holloway's spokesman Owen Brown said the government supported the concept of transit-orientated development and would consider the PCA's recommendations.

[Shuz]

As I've said many times before it should run down Port Road not the Outer Harbour line!

That way more buses could be taken off the road, reducing congestion because you would have an unlimited capacity corridor to run higher frequencies (with the provisions of overpasses and underpasses where required) and allow the tramline to directly feed into Commercial Road and Vincent Streets, which could be transformed just as Jetty Road is now. A West Lakes and Grange corridor would still be viable.

Converting the line to light rail will only have a negative impact, particularly for Outer Harbor residents. Why would they support any move that increases their travelling time to the city?

[Cruise]

That way more buses could be taken off the road, reducing congestion because you would have an unlimited capacity corridor to run higher frequencies

Buses cause congestion?
riiiiight

[Norman]

Residents in North Haven (Noone lives in Outer Harbor) will benefit with a third track that will allow trams to run express to Port Adelaide, then all stations to North Haven.

[Shuz]

That way more buses could be taken off the road, reducing congestion because you would have an unlimited capacity corridor to run higher frequencies

Buses cause congestion?
riiiiight

Yes, actually, they do. As long as they are a part of traffic flow, especially in conditions where they stop and hold up a lane of traffic, let alone being held up by initial traffic itself, they cause congestion. The O-Bahn and busways are different, because of their ability to travel on a bus-only designated corridor.

[Cruise]

Come on, seriously using that logic the tram line on Jetty Road and the tram line on King William Street south should be ripped up immediately due to the fact they impede the private car.

[Shuz]

Come on, seriously using that logic the tram line on Jetty Road and the tram line on King William Street south should be ripped up immediately due to the fact they impede the private car.

I hope you realise very soon that private transport is fast becoming a very unreliable, unaffordable and inefficient method of transport. We simply cannot continue to live dependantly on the motor vechicle and associated freeway networks, for they do nothing more than create more conjestion, chaos and contribute CO2 at alarming rates. My only favourable opinion to the usage of the car is when people carpool.

I can sympathise with your position, because it would be silly to say that driving and owning car is not a luxury, for they offer things that PT cannot. However, in this day and age, I would hope that people understand the importance of giving up what is relatively a minor luxury in terms of the bigger picture, and do the world some good by taking alternative means of transport.

[Düsseldorfer]

What we need are more tram lines...one of my tram visions ( http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/37/tramnetzcl1.jpg ) 4-5 cross city tram lines each making a stop at Rundle Mall and Pirie St.

We could stop calling it "The Tram" and call it line 1 or line 2 etc etc...

[monotonehell]

What we need are more tram lines...one of my tram visions ( http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/37/tramnetzcl1.jpg ) 4-5 cross city tram lines each making a stop at Rundle Mall and Pirie St.

We could stop calling it "The Tram" and call it line 1 or line 2 etc etc...

Most of your suggested lines are too long for trams with so many stops. Even the existing Glenelg line is sitting just beyond the optimum length of a tram service. Trams should be short runs with many stops, interfacing with the urban mesh (as one of our members is apt to say). Trains should be long runs with few stops, concentrated on moving people from one centre to another. Buses should be short runs across suburban sprawl, dynamically altering their routes to match need. Obahns should link near-distant sprawl with centres where appropriate. Train lines should be fed with buses from sprawl at far-distant points where appropriate.

We need to use each PT type where it works the best.

[Omicron]

I hope you realise very soon that private transport is fast becoming a very unreliable, unaffordable and inefficient method of transport. We simply cannot continue to live dependantly on the motor vechicle and associated freeway networks, for they do nothing more than create more conjestion, chaos and contribute CO2 at alarming rates. My only favourable opinion to the usage of the car is when people carpool.

The one million new cars sold in Australia last year (one new car for every 21 people) suggest that consumers still find the cost of vehicle ownership acceptable for the time being.

Incidentally, given Germany's public transport system is often presented as one we should try to emulate, and given the average price of unleaded petrol per litre currently hovers around AUD$2.20, it is interesting to note that 3.2 million new cars were sold there in 2007 - one new car for every 26 people. Applying the same ratio to the Australian motor industry, that suggests approximately 807,000 new cars sold should petrol prices rise to similar levels and the public transport system brought up to equal standards - still a very significant addition to the existing fleet of cars, especially assuming far fewer than 807,000 old cars are taken off the roads each year due to age or unroadworthiness.

It may be that petrol has to rise to $3.50 or even $4 per litre before it makes any sort of fundamental impact on people's transport habits, and even that assumes personal incomes remain as they are. $3.50 petrol sounds frightful now, but so did $1.50 petrol back in 1988.