PRO: Port Adelaide Tramline | $260m

[PhilH]

Hi Norman,

Are there low-floor sections at the ends of those carriages to allow wheelchairs, buggys, etc on and off?

[Düsseldorfer]

Hi Norman,

Are there low-floor sections at the ends of those carriages to allow wheelchairs, buggys, etc on and off?

if those trams are anything like the ones we have in Düsseldorf then, nope, there are no low floor sections, unless you are on a low-floor tram (like Adelaide's new trams)...yeah germany isn't very good for the physically disabled

[muzzamo]

if its not low floor then its go no chance unfortunately.

Perhaps the stops on the line will be of two heights? Or perhaps some will be tram stops and some will be train stops.

[Shuz]

I really hope the goverment sees sense in building the tramline adjacent Port Road (from North Terrace to Fitzroy Terrace) and not down the middle of its median. I would have thought that it would be best to maximise efficiency by running it along its own right-of-way route. An additional benefit of implementing it this way is the improved safety to pedestrians.

I'd be interested to know what the stops will be.
As far as I can think of I would expect them at Gray Street, Marj and/or Adelaide Gaol (shared?) George St, Phillips St, Ent. Centre (and they really should go one further to Milner St)

[crawf]

Theres going to be a 800 space Park n Ride facility located at the Entertainment Centre. So people will be able to park their cars and catch a tram to the city for a small fee.

[Ho Really]

Now i knew all my training wouldn't go to waste, i can understand 409!

"To a railfan, no explanation is neccessary but to you however, no explanation is possible!"

Thanks Will for the indepth explanation.

Cheers

[Ho Really]

Kevin Foley on the ABC's Stateline announced that the tram from the Entertainment Centre will head through a redeveloped (Clipsal site) Bowden housing estate to the Outer Harbor line.

I wonder If I'm understanding you correctly (or if you understood Foley correctly), because...

The Entertainment Centre is on the south-western side of Port Road and the railway line.
The current Clipsal site is on the north-eastern side of the railway line.
So, for the tram to go through the redeveloped Clipsal site, it will have to cross the railway line that it is supposed to be connecting up to!
Yep, that makes perfect sense, Kevin!

The transcript of last night's program is not up yet on the ABC Stateline's website, so all I can say is he may have said through to. I omitted the to. Sorry.

Cheers

[Norman]

I really hope the goverment sees sense in building the tramline adjacent Port Road (from North Terrace to Fitzroy Terrace) and not down the middle of its median. I would have thought that it would be best to maximise efficiency by running it along its own right-of-way route. An additional benefit of implementing it this way is the improved safety to pedestrians.

I'd be interested to know what the stops will be.
As far as I can think of I would expect them at Gray Street, Marj and/or Adelaide Gaol (shared?) George St, Phillips St, Ent. Centre (and they really should go one further to Milner St)

My tip for stops?

-City West
-MJN Hospital
-Adelaide Gaol
-Thebarton
-Bonython Park
-Adelaide Entertainment Centre

[Will409]

I have drawn up a map that shows in more detail the rail/tram system in the CBD/north western parklands. What I think will happen is that the tramline will run down the median of Port Road but, like the Victoria Square - City West section, will have dedicated tram lanes which means that trams should have an uninterrupted run (except for traffic lights). This system of running will only apply to the 'traditional' tramway section only. Beyond the Entertainment Centre, the hybrid tram/trains will run for a brief section down the wide median of Port Road before turning right down East Street. East Street is only a short run to the connection with the Outer Harbor railway and is also the very first at grade level crossing north of Bowden Station. East Street is only 2 lanes wide but is just wide enough to take trams running on double track.

[how_good_is_he]

Excellent work Will.
I think after City West or even the the MJN Hospital the tram should join the Outer harbour line.
Can someone explain why the major duplication of the red line [to Ent centre] and yellow line [outer harbour line] can not be removed with a spur from the Outer Habour line at say Bowden direct to the entertainment centre [where the big Australia flagpole currently sits]. It would achieve the same goal and save maybe $300m+.

[Will409]

I have already mentioned the reasons in detail elsewhere in one of the three threads about why it is not practicle to have the tram route follow the heavy railline along it's entire length closer to the CBD then Bowden station.

[Mants]

I really hope the goverment sees sense in building the tramline adjacent Port Road (from North Terrace to Fitzroy Terrace) and not down the middle of its median. I would have thought that it would be best to maximise efficiency by running it along its own right-of-way route. An additional benefit of implementing it this way is the improved safety to pedestrians.

I'd be interested to know what the stops will be.
As far as I can think of I would expect them at Gray Street, Marj and/or Adelaide Gaol (shared?) George St, Phillips St, Ent. Centre (and they really should go one further to Milner St)

i agree, the tram really should continue down to milner street and possibly running it along coglin street and onto the rail line... was just about to post this.

[Aidan]

A link between the Outer Harbor line at Bowden and Port Road at the Entertainment Centre is the closest practical point to the CBD where a transfer can be made. As I pointed out already, try to take the tram route any further down the line and you will have a dual mode TransAdelaide tram/railway interface with the ARTC interstate network at Torrens Junction. In addition, to create a link with the current City West - Glenelg line in the CBD if you followed the heavy rail line in it's entirety, you would need a flyover in Adelaide Station yard which I have already pointed out as being unfeasable due to various construction works as well as a couple of other issues.

The answer is to access it via Gaol Road, as suggested in the Port Adelaide Enfield council report. This would involve moving the ARTC line to between the Port and Gawler lines. Torrens Junction would have to be replaced with one S of the Torrens.

It might be better to abandon the idea of hybrid operation on that line. TramTrains are a good idea when you want to take advantage of existing electrified railways, but needlessly expensive if the line hasn't been electrified yet. Running via Port Road would waste lots of time for no significant advantage - Thebarton station would put Thebarton on the map just as effectively if it were on Gaol Road than if it were on Port Road, and the EnterCenter is only two minutes walk from Bowden Station (one minute to walk to Port Road, another minute to cross at the crossing). Speed is an issue, but a greater frequency benefits more people than those who use the few fast trains in the peaks, and Lefevre Peninsula residents are likely to prefer a more convenient service as long as it's still reasonably fast. Also there's likely to be a safety issue, possibly requiring Automatic Train Protection to separate the trains and trams.

These are just my initial impressions. I will be investigating it soon.

As for conversion of the 3000/3100 class "Poxboxes", I havn't seen the reported cost of conversion for the entire fleet and probably won't see any listings until we get closer to the work actually being carried out. The heavy rail overhead will be electrified at 25 000V 50hz AC current which is the same used in Brisbane/Regional Queensland as well as Perth. What will happen is that the current diesel engines and AC alternator sets will be removed from the underframe and either discarded or made available as spare parts for the remaining 12 railcars that will stay diesel operated for use on the Belair line. The traction motors currently fitted are AC drive which makes life easier during the conversion stage. Even though the design is now over 20 years old, the control gear on these railcars was actually years ahead of it's time in Australia being the first in the nation to use AC Inverter control gear which is now fairly widely used on most modern DMUs in this country. These railcars at the time of introduction were designed with electric use in mind (indeed, they were based on the 300 strong Comeng EMU fleet in Melbourne which were built arond the same time by the same manufacturer initially). Just to prove how far sighted the STA were when they ordered the 3000/3100 class fleet, they were not only designed for electrification in mind but also standardisation.

Yes they can be converted... but should they be? There are two issues: firstly performance - if they are converted, will they be capable of the higher speeds and high acceleration that Perth's trains manage? If not, it might be better to go with all new stock. The second issue is demand - would the railways of Victoria and Ireland be interested in buying some diesel railcars that are convertible to electric? If so, it might be better to sell them and buy new standard gauge stock.

[Will409]

Aiden, you do have to remember that EMUs are lighter in over all weight then DMUs. DMUs have to carry around all the engines/fuel tanks/radiators and other anciallary equipment under the floor. This does add a reasonable amount of weight (probably about 3/4 tonnes in the case of the 3000/3100s). Remove those and overhaul the traction motors and you should see converted railcars with a better level of acceleration to the 4000 class EMUs that are to be ordered. I will conceed the fact that they may not be quite as fast as new stock but you do have to remember that the poxboxes are between 12-21 years old now.

ATP is already used on the heavy rail system keeping trains apart. Running trams on the heavy rail line wouldn't be an issue since the ATP system would just consider it another rail vehicle on the system and the various CTC screens in Train Control next to the Adelaide rail yards would have the hybrid show up on the control panels.

I don't really see your argument about the tram/trains because the line was going to be electrified regardless (in addition to the entire heavy rail system).

As for the ARTC line, I don't think ARTC would even bother. The reason is that you may eliminate the diamond crossover at Torrens Junction but instead you would shift it over to the Adelaide end of Torrens River bridge. The ARTC line would crossover the TA line to continue onto Melbourne via the Gaol Loop - Mile End. No point shifting a current problem a few hundred metres away if it is still going to happen.

[muzzamo]

Anyone have any idea how the trams and trains will stop along the hybrid line?

Wont the trains get bunched up behind the trams?

Also where exactly are the trains going to be going to - will there be direct trains to football park?