[CAN] Spire Living | 107m | 37lvls | Residential

[Joely]

Joely wrote: This is absolutely horrific! What a tragedy . For once I agree with the council in their decision to defer this shocking design. From looking at the renders it looks as if these 'new' ones were the very first drafts they whipped up 4 years ago before they proposed this building and altered the design to the striking and modern Spire we all know and love. They just look so cheap and nasty. Not to mention the building itself! Eeeewww. Sometimes I really wonder why I keep coming back here. I should just pack up and move to Brissy for good.

You base your living location on one or two buildings?

No, it's just the fact that I wish Adelaide had the same vision and forward thinking as Brisbane does. Though I consider both cities home, whenever I go there I'm jealous of all the massive towers proposed, approved and under construction. However I'm confident our time will come. Patience.

Brisbane isn't exactly an architectural mecca either....

It is definitely becoming one. There are many awesome proposals springing up in Brissy, including one designed by Tom Wright, the architect of the Burj Al Arab hotel in Dubai. There's also Vision, Trilogy, Empire Square and 111 Eagle St all approved or U/C.

Anyway back to Spire, why even have balconies? If the only solution to the heat problems is by replacing the glass balustrading with concrete and making the building look like a 70s commie block then why not just seal the building up, give the apartments some more space and have the building shear glass with all the double glazing and black out curtains etc. I was thinking something along the lines of the Westin Hotel in NY. It's front facade faces North-West by the way.



What we really need is a 110 metre Space Apartments-esque design. That would be lovely.

[Wayno]

anyone know when we can expect to see revised & detailed renders for Spire? i presume they still intend to keep to the same-ish construction schedule?

[Ben]

4. ITEM NO. 3.3 - 16-20 BENTHAM STREET, ADELAIDE SA 5000, PLAN NO.
DA/443/2005/A [DA] (F/DA/0443/2005/A, EP)
Much discussion ensued.
It was then -
Moved by Councillor WILKINSON,
Seconded by Councillor PLUMRIDGE -
City of Adelaide Development Assessment Panel Meeting - Minutes - 2 June 2008
6268
That the development, the subject of the application from Oracon P/L for variation to
original authorisation DA/443/2005, to construct a 33 level building for residential,
office and retail use with on-site ancillary car parking - increase in building height to
37 levels, reduced car parking, deletion of office level, altered external design and
resolution to outstanding reserve matter at 16-20 Bentham Street, Adelaide SA 5000
as shown on plans designated DA/443/2005/A be DEFERRED to seek the applicant
to better recognise and design the building in respect to PA16 Character Statement
for Bentham Street in the design of the lower portion of the building.

[Hippodamus]

Am I reading that extract from the City Council correctly... are they suggesting that they not only better the design of the bottom portion of the building, but also increase height to 37 levels...?

Great if this is the case!

[Ben]

Am I reading that extract from the City Council correctly... are they suggesting that they not only better the design of the bottom portion of the building, but also increase height to 37 levels...?

Great if this is the case!

No that is the purpose of this application. the developers are going for the increased height to 37 levels and amended design which was deferred.

[skyliner]

Anyone know the proposed height of the 37 level bldg?

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE

[Will]

Anyone know the proposed height of the 37 level bldg?

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE

By 37 levels they are including the 2 underground levels. The height of the building is 107.2m

[Ho Really]

...Anyway back to Spire, why even have balconies? If the only solution to the heat problems is by replacing the glass balustrading with concrete and making the building look like a 70s commie block then why not just seal the building up, give the apartments some more space and have the building shear glass with all the double glazing and black out curtains etc. I was thinking something along the lines of the Westin Hotel in NY. It's front facade faces North-West by the way...

Don't compare the climatic conditions of New York's summer to that of Adelaide's (or for that matter even winter). Also hotels are not required to have balconies. I doubt very much many would want their apartment not to have a balcony considering the weather we have. One solution could be to have louvres over the balconies to reduce the sun's heat onto the windows and glass doors. This would work well only for the northern aspect as the sun's angle in summer would not reach most of the balcony. The problem is with the western aspect where the sun sets. I also wonder whether it will look good design-wise?

Cheers

[Joely]

...Anyway back to Spire, why even have balconies? If the only solution to the heat problems is by replacing the glass balustrading with concrete and making the building look like a 70s commie block then why not just seal the building up, give the apartments some more space and have the building shear glass with all the double glazing and black out curtains etc. I was thinking something along the lines of the Westin Hotel in NY. It's front facade faces North-West by the way...

Don't compare the climatic conditions of New York's summer to that of Adelaide's (or for that matter even winter). Also hotels are not required to have balconies. I doubt very much many would want their apartment not to have a balcony considering the weather we have. One solution could be to have louvres over the balconies to reduce the sun's heat onto the windows and glass doors. This would work well only for the northern aspect as the sun's angle in summer would not reach most of the balcony. The problem is with the western aspect where the sun sets. I also wonder whether it will look good design-wise?

Cheers

On second thought, I agree with you RE the balconies. They are definitely needed for apartments, particulary in a city like Adelaide with its (generally) lovely weather. Speaking of louvres, today I noticed that the Embassy apartments on North Tce have glass balconies on the western elevation with some sort of louvre, screen type things which aren't visable normally but are able to fold out and seal off the balcony. Concrete is just the cheaper and easier option so it seems.

[Denny Crane]

Although this is my first post, I have been following this site and, in particular this thread, for quite some time. Without going into specifics, I have investments and involvement in several projects in Adelaide, Spire included. And whilst I wish to remain anonymous, I would like to contribute something to this thread to ease some concerns about the re-design of the building.

I would like to say that this is the most exciting project I have ever been involved in. The engineering of a 36 level tower on a land-locked 452m2 site is not only an Adelaide first, but dare I say a national first. The dynamic analysis for this project was actually done in Dubai because of the experience the Emirates counterparts to the design team has had in buildings of this proportion! Believe me, its very exciting.

The participants in this thread have raised concerns ranging from the time it has taken to put this development together, to the use of some materials in the façade. My advice to the group is this – as of today (and one can only speak of today because we don’t know what the future holds) this development is on track to commence construction in August/September of this year. A definitive date has not yet been selected, however will be in the coming few weeks.

In response to several posts regarding the time it has taken to get this building out of the ground, I have this to say. Since inception in 2003, this site has had 4 different owners and has been the subject of two legal disputes surrounding ownership and air-rights. Although these issues were resolved over 12 months ago, they have done nothing but cost the development time and money. I am happy to say, however, that the building is in very capable hands, and will commence construction Q2 this year.

With regard to the redesign, I would like to say just one thing… WAIT FOR THE 3D! I can assure you, there is no way the design of this tower will ever be compromised! This is possibly one of the most important developments in Adelaide, rest-assured it will not be the subject of typical cost-cutting – the purchaser of the penthouse would have been the first to pull-out if any of the suggestions made on this thread were true. Whilst I appreciate the previous design had its merits, the new one does as well.

I have included a list of the changes below. Please understand, everything happens for a reason. The design team is doing its very best to ensure these revisions do nothing but improve the building, whilst, at the same time, satisfy the council’s new ESD requirements and heritage concerns.

The revisions are as follows:

Traffic & Car parking
Due to the anticipated increase in foot and vehicle traffic along Bentham Street since the previous Permit was issued, revisions have been made to the strategy to bring vehicles in and out of the building.

The 2 car-lifts facing Bentham St have been relocated, and are now accessed from within the building to avoid cars queuing up along Bentham Street. An additional basement level has been created to provide 4 holding bays for cars to wait while the car lifts arrive to take them up. Drawing on the clean lines and verticality of the structure, the building form on the south façade has been revised in direct response to the new car-lift configuration.

Ground Floor Plan
The new traffic and car parking strategy has had implications on the planning of the Ground floor level. These changes along with the building occupant escape paths, retail tenancy, and residential entry have been incorporated into the new layout.

The retail tenancy has been located to the south of the building entry, with provision for under-cover out door seating. This protected area is shared with the residential entry, creating a high level of after-hours surveillance and security.

Sun Shading to North and West facing glass
A strategy for providing additional sun-shading to the North and West facing glazing has been adopted across the entire building. Rather than applying a different cosmetic treatment to each area requiring shading, the approach has been to address the issue as a whole, resulting in cleaner and more elegantly proportioned building facades.

Penthouses
In order to reduce the thermal load on the northern penthouse apartments, the overall area of unshaded glazing to the north and west has been significantly reduced. All remaining west facing glass will be shaded using fixed louvres that block out the summer sun.

In order to maintain view, natural light penetration and a sense of open-ness, these apartment layouts have been revised, drawing on the strong verticality and proportions of the building form below.

Balconies
While the balconies provide some shade to the glazed windows and doors, additional shading has been provided in the design of the balustrade elements. This approach has been repeated to form a series of strong horizontal elements within an overall frame, grouping all balconies together on the North and West elevations. At no time has it ever been suggested that the balconies will be made from concrete or Swiss Pearl. The Swiss Pearl material is being used in a different colour to break up the eastern and southern facades. The material selection for the balconies hasn’t occurred yet.

West facing bedroom windows
A deep metal clad window shroud will shade the glass on the west facing bedroom windows, articulate the façade and group all windows together in a strong vertical element.

ESD Initiatives
In addition to the overall strategy for shading north and west facing glass, a number of sustainable design initiatives are being implemented:

• Carbon monoxide monitoring system for carpark exhaust fan control.
• Variable speed drive (VSD) fans.
• Use of high efficiency air cooled reverse cycle inverter driven air conditioning systems, specifically selected to remove the potential for Legionella and to utilise an air conditioning system which does not require water for heat rejection.
• Smart Energy metering and ongoing building tuning to monitor ongoing energy use and identify any peak energy use.
• Provision of T5 type low energy use luminaire to the Level 10 Spa.
• Provision of low energy lighting to the apartments.
• No use of low-voltage downlights.
• Water efficient tapware incorporating minimum 4 star WELS rated fittings.
• Fire test water recirculation.
• Use of refrigerants with zero ozone depletion potential.
• Use of insulation products manufactured with zero ozone depletion potential agents.
• High thermally performing glass to specific areas.
• Selection of recycled, sustainably sourced, low VOC, and formaldehyde free materials where possible.

South Facade
The three predominant materials proposed on the south elevation are, articulated natural concrete to the car park and residential floors, express jointed charcoal zinc cladding to the penthouse levels, and an open-jointed panel clad box to the vertical element on the southeast corner. While being a boundary wall, a significant level of articulation has been created along with quality materials. In addition, the west facing balconies have been revised to provide an expressed glass corner, further enhancing the visual interest of the south elevation. The extension of the entry canopy along the south façade further enhances the corner aspect of the building. This horizontal expression frames the deep textured render surface below.

Plant Screen and Lighting Feature
The plant screen to the top of the building extends to 5.4m above the roof slab level, and has been integrated with a west facing feature lighting element. The feature lighting element will consist of a ‘light-box’ panel behind a perforated aluminium screen, and will create a diffuse glow of coloured light to the top of the building.

External Materials and Finishes
The external materials selected have been chosen for their robust qualities, and for their natural colour and texture.

Carpark screens and Ground level interface
The new carpark screen incorporates back lighting to create a greater level of visual interest from street level. The double -layered screening detail articulates the façade while concealing the view of the carparks, maintaining natural ventilation to the carpark levels and screening the direct light from car headlights into the adjacent buildings.

Council Deferral
The podium design has been revised to respond to comments made at the DAP review on 2nd June 2008. In particular the proposal has been reviewed in respect to the context of Bentham Street.

The podium has been redesigned to better complement the existing street scale and character and to add architectural detail to the façade design. The revised podium is modulated to reflect key datum and rhythms in the existing Bentham Street elevations and has been given greater material expression. The podium does not seek to mimic existing facades but rather references existing street scape qualities such as scale, articulation and proportion. It is held that whilst designed to sit comfortably in the existing streetscape the proposed building is a modern, contemporary design and it is critical that this is reflected in the podium design in order for the building as a whole to have a coherent and consistent character.

[rogue]

Thanks for your detailed post. As you suggest, my judgement is reserved until further renders are available.

Great name btw. Boston Legal cracks me up

[ynotsfables]

Wow what can i say , if thats not a detailed articulate description of whats to come i don't know what is .
Sounds fantastic can't wait, this ones going to be a beauty.

[Pants]

Thanks for taking the time to post that and addressing the concerns that many of us had about the re-design.

It's encouraging to see that you, as an investor in the project, realise that it will leave a significant mark on the city and should be designed with that in mind.

Your explanations about the various facades and material choices make logistical sense and sound good, but as you say, the proof wil be in the 3D renders. Whilst what we've seen of the re-design so far is really underwhelming, despite the reasons behind it, the least people can do is wait for the most indicative renders before condemning the design to the extent that many of us (myself included) have.

I look forward to seeing them.

Also, I hope that wasn't a one-off contribution to the forums. It's always great to have people directly involved in the building and development industry on the site.

Cheers.

[Denny Crane]

Thanks for that. This industry can get frustrating at the best of times, you start out with an idea, and by the time all the various consultants have finished with it, it ends up looking completely different. To be perfectly honest, when the board first saw those illustrations, it had the same reaction.

But as time goes on, more and more images and renders are presented, and you start to understand how everything is going to look, and why things are placed where they are, etc. Just once, I'd like to be involved in a project that ends up the way it started out. But, thats the industry.

I like to go back over renders of buildings that were proposed in the city, go through all the marketing material and then have a look at the finished product. Most of the time its money, sometimes its council, but the rest of the time, its the fact that when the architect designs the building and produces the renders, none of the structural or services consultants have even been engaged yet!! So really, nothing should be rendered up, let alone relied upon, especially by council, because it will almost never turn out looking the way it was originally intended to.

To give you an idea, there are 17 consultants that attend every design meeting to help put this particular project together. And believe me, everyone of them has their own agenda as to how things need to fit, and where things need to go! It is mayhem most of the time.

[Pants]

As someone who tries to resolve building disputes for a living, I fully understand just how rare it is to get everyone on the same page in a construction project.

Thanks again for the insight and good luck getting this one off the ground.