If you want to live in a big, lively booming city......

[Neuropolis]

heritage, heritage, heritage, everything is bloody heritage these days get real - we should be bulldozing these things, if the facade is particularly impressive, then retain it, otherwise, its got to go. we are only contributing to a sprawling cbd by living in the past and retaining these buildings, one might even argue that heritage policies are in a small part contributing to urban sprawl

no chew on that!

Some fine points have already been made on this by Will above me, so I won't vent too much spleen here !

I've lived in Adelaide for most of my life and I have always loved it, just as most people here do. We all love it for different reasons and we are of different backgrounds and ages. I don't think anyone wants to see Adelaide become a boring clone, as Will stated frankly. I certainly do not.
I have travelled through much of North America and I did not once come across a city anything like Adelaide. Oh, I saw many impressive buildings and amazing concrete and glass panoramas, but Adelaide has a beauty that is quite delicate. Some of this beauty is due to the preservation of our unique history and some of it is in our proximity to unique environments, some of which are now threatened.
I post here, not as some sourpuss with an axe to grind, but as someone who has loved this city and spoken of it gleefully on my visits overseas. I have never felt inferior to bigger cities in Australia. I have never pined to be like them. And I have never pined to live anywhere else.
I stated in a different thread that:

To destroy our past is to devalue our future.

Part of our strength of character here is our heritage. It is our care for our environment.

Have you ever looked down upon Adelaide from Mt Lofty?
By night it looks like a scintillating circuitboard. By day it looks like a forest...the tops of tree lined streets and bounteous parks dotting the plains.

That's what I see when I look at Adelaide. It is a city with a difference. That's what I feel. As I age, I look around me and sense the winds of change and that change is scary as one gets older. All of your history and self belief can feel threatened by the new wave of change. Frankly, this site frightens me because it represents this change. I do realise that change can never be defeated. It is like standing in the path of a cultural juggernaut and crying meekly.

This holds true for everyone. It's a universal truth. Everyone will feel it sometime.

I say this:

Be proud of Adelaide and what it has been in the past and will continue to be. Do not devalue our past by knocking it down. Build on it and retain the character of this city. But most of all, never feel inferior to any other city. We cannot become truly confident by emulating what other cities do. If we are to take hold of a future for everyone, it should be on our own unique terms, not bowing to the pressures of international and greedy developers andcertainly not to the overblown egos of our local Government. Adelaide once was the first state to give women the right to vote. Let's innovate again, but not simply by building big and tall, but also by feeling proud of what this city is and what it used to be.

I've said my lengthy piece.

Thanks.

[Ho Really]

Well said Neuropolis. I'm with you.

Cheers

[Wayno]

I've said my lengthy piece.

I agree with you Neuropolis, except about being frightened by this site and the change it represents.

Adelaide is indeed unique, and it will only improve. Most people on this site do truly want to "build upon what we have", although sometimes postings are used to vent frustrations (myself included), but they can easily be misinterpreted as a desire the demolish everything and rebuild from scratch

Let me list a few up-and-coming changes (some short term, some long term) and you tell me which will destroy Adelaide:

• * Building several more tall buildings in the CBD?
  * An invigorated city streetlife, and yes this means pubs/clubs remaining open til very late?
  * A new hospital and waterfront entertainment precinct on the railyards?
  * The Parklands retained and at the same time made to be a desirable destination in themselves
  * Extend the tram system through suburbia?
  * Create a few high-density TODs, with many bike-friendly paths leading into them so people in surrounding suburbia can also benefit?
  * Building many underpasses that solve traffic bottlenecks at key intersections, but don't spoil the view from Mt Lofty?
  * Granting the world access to the vast quantities of minerals in our outback?
  * The need to bring in 1000s of new residents to fill job vacancies caused by the expansion of our economy (and also caused by our inability to keep our population demographic balanced)?

Personally, the only thing happening in Adelaide that scares me is the short-sighted approach to new subdivisions at the far reaches of suburbia. Everything else is positive and hopefully inevitable.

[Just build it]

All I have to say is that a few years ago when I was returning from NYC flying the approach over North Adelaide and looking out on Adelaide's CBD and parklands under a clear blue sky it never looked so good to me before in my life. Even walking the old airport tarmac was no longer an embarrassment but an enjoyable quirk indicating that I was home. Being away changed a lot of my negative views on SA.

I'd left Adelaide thinking I hated the fact it wasn't a 'big, lively booming city' and returned to it thanking God that it's not. It has everything I need. I don't 'need' 200-300m scrapers. Of course, I really LIKE 200-300m scrapers.....but in reality they don't improve my quality of life just because they're there.

For me it truly was a case of, you don't know what you've got till it's gone.

[Neuropolis]

All I have to say is that a few years ago when I was returning from NYC flying the approach over North Adelaide and looking out on Adelaide's CBD and parklands under a clear blue sky it never looked so good to me before in my life. Even walking the old airport tarmac was no longer an embarrassment but an enjoyable quirk indicating that I was home. Being away changed a lot of my negative views on SA.

I'd left Adelaide thinking I hated the fact it wasn't a 'big, lively booming city' and returned to it thanking God that it's not. It has everything I need. I don't 'need' 200-300m scrapers. Of course, I really LIKE 200-300m scrapers.....but in reality they don't improve my quality of life just because they're there.

For me it truly was a case of, you don't know what you've got till it's gone.

I completely agree with you.
I've done the same myself...flown back from places like NYC, Singapore etc...and the sight of the green plains of Adelaide, with low skyline was a welcoming sight. I'd never hated it, but I did begin to feel flat living here. After having travelled, I also came to appreciate Adelaide far more. It is different. It is quirky. It is a city which invites social gatherings, friends and family. If one needs a city that never sleeps, there are plenty of those further afield. I like the sleepiness of Adelaide and so do plenty of others.

[Neuropolis]

I've said my lengthy piece.

I agree with you Neuropolis, except about being frightened by this site and the change it represents.

Adelaide is indeed unique, and it will only improve. Most people on this site do truly want to "build upon what we have", although sometimes postings are used to vent frustrations (myself included), but they can easily be misinterpreted as a desire the demolish everything and rebuild from scratch

Let me list a few up-and-coming changes (some short term, some long term) and you tell me which will destroy Adelaide:

• * Building several more tall buildings in the CBD?
  * An invigorated city streetlife, and yes this means pubs/clubs remaining open til very late?
  * A new hospital and waterfront entertainment precinct on the railyards?
  * The Parklands retained and at the same time made to be a desirable destination in themselves
  * Extend the tram system through suburbia?
  * Create a few high-density TODs, with many bike-friendly paths leading into them so people in surrounding suburbia can also benefit?
  * Building many underpasses that solve traffic bottlenecks at key intersections, but don't spoil the view from Mt Lofty?
  * Granting the world access to the vast quantities of minerals in our outback?
  * The need to bring in 1000s of new residents to fill job vacancies caused by the expansion of our economy (and also caused by our inability to keep our population demographic balanced)?

Personally, the only thing happening in Adelaide that scares me is the short-sighted approach to new subdivisions at the far reaches of suburbia. Everything else is positive and hopefully inevitable.

I am not against developments which improve our access to essential infrastructure, quality of life, social cohesion and security.
Tall buildings are much of a muchness. If people feel the particular need to throw up a tall building or two to satisfy some deep need to feel better, then it's fine as long as no heritage is destroyed.
As for the Hospital. Well, I think there are some long running political agendas there which have little to do with actually improving our lives. There is simply no need for a big new hospital in the railyards location while we can spend half of that money improving the RAH. Again, if we already have the infrastructure and it can be improved for less money, leaving more money for other cornerstones like Education, then I see no good reason to proceed with it. I think that's a very rational and measured argument against such a development.
Can't argue with improving traffic flow, although, building an underpass to solve every snag sounds extreme. Considering the half arsed attempt they made at the Southern Expressway, Governments in this state do not have a good track record of actually solving real world problems.
Well, the Trams in the city are certainly unnecessary, in light of other more pressing issues, such as public education.
Basically, when all of the cornerstones that support our community are well taken care of and funded properly and functioning well, namely Health, Education, Social Welfare - then we can build those skyscrapers with any leftover funds.
But then, I'm an idealist. Our politicians are only ever interested in remaining in power. It's not a good mix.

If the predictions are even half correct about the possibility of a steady economic downturn in this state for the next decade, then I doubt much of what you say will get build anyway, certainly not by this Government.
With peak oil around the corner, investor and consumer confidence taking a hit, I can't see 15 000 houses being built at Buckland Park, can you?

[Will]

I've said my lengthy piece.

I agree with you Neuropolis, except about being frightened by this site and the change it represents.

Adelaide is indeed unique, and it will only improve. Most people on this site do truly want to "build upon what we have", although sometimes postings are used to vent frustrations (myself included), but they can easily be misinterpreted as a desire the demolish everything and rebuild from scratch

Let me list a few up-and-coming changes (some short term, some long term) and you tell me which will destroy Adelaide:

• * Building several more tall buildings in the CBD?
  * An invigorated city streetlife, and yes this means pubs/clubs remaining open til very late?
  * A new hospital and waterfront entertainment precinct on the railyards?
  * The Parklands retained and at the same time made to be a desirable destination in themselves
  * Extend the tram system through suburbia?
  * Create a few high-density TODs, with many bike-friendly paths leading into them so people in surrounding suburbia can also benefit?
  * Building many underpasses that solve traffic bottlenecks at key intersections, but don't spoil the view from Mt Lofty?
  * Granting the world access to the vast quantities of minerals in our outback?
  * The need to bring in 1000s of new residents to fill job vacancies caused by the expansion of our economy (and also caused by our inability to keep our population demographic balanced)?

Personally, the only thing happening in Adelaide that scares me is the short-sighted approach to new subdivisions at the far reaches of suburbia. Everything else is positive and hopefully inevitable.

I am not against developments which improve our access to essential infrastructure, quality of life, social cohesion and security.
Tall buildings are much of a muchness. If people feel the particular need to throw up a tall building or two to satisfy some deep need to feel better, then it's fine as long as no heritage is destroyed.
As for the Hospital. Well, I think there are some long running political agendas there which have little to do with actually improving our lives. There is simply no need for a big new hospital in the railyards location while we can spend half of that money improving the RAH. Again, if we already have the infrastructure and it can be improved for less money, leaving more money for other cornerstones like Education, then I see no good reason to proceed with it. I think that's a very rational and measured argument against such a development.
Can't argue with improving traffic flow, although, building an underpass to solve every snag sounds extreme. Considering the half arsed attempt they made at the Southern Expressway, Governments in this state do not have a good track record of actually solving real world problems.
Well, the Trams in the city are certainly unnecessary, in light of other more pressing issues, such as public education.
Basically, when all of the cornerstones that support our community are well taken care of and funded properly and functioning well, namely Health, Education, Social Welfare - then we can build those skyscrapers with any leftover funds.
But then, I'm an idealist. Our politicians are only ever interested in remaining in power. It's not a good mix.

If the predictions are even half correct about the possibility of a steady economic downturn in this state for the next decade, then I doubt much of what you say will get build anyway, certainly not by this Government.
With peak oil around the corner, investor and consumer confidence taking a hit, I can't see 15 000 houses being built at Buckland Park, can you?

Neuropolis, from what you have written, it appears that you believe that the government is responsible for building the skyscrapers. They aren't. It is the private sector.

[jk1237]

Again, if we already have the infrastructure and it can be improved for less money, leaving more money for other cornerstones like Education, then I see no good reason to proceed with it. I think that's a very rational and measured argument against such a development.
Can't argue with improving traffic flow, although, building an underpass to solve every snag sounds extreme. Considering the half arsed attempt they made at the Southern Expressway, Governments in this state do not have a good track record of actually solving real world problems.
Well, the Trams in the city are certainly unnecessary, in light of other more pressing issues, such as public education.
Basically, when all of the cornerstones that support our community are well taken care of and funded properly and functioning well, namely Health, Education, Social Welfare - then we can build those skyscrapers with any leftover funds.
But then, I'm an idealist. Our politicians are only ever interested in remaining in power. It's not a good mix.

Huh?, health, education, and social welfare are appropriately funded. Go to some Asian or African countries to see the difference, even the USA. Why oh why does every cent of public funds have to be spent on health and education. It already has a large budget, so theres no need to spend over it.

Come on Neuropolis, I thought I was reading a letter to the Adv editor for a moment.

[Neuropolis]

Again, if we already have the infrastructure and it can be improved for less money, leaving more money for other cornerstones like Education, then I see no good reason to proceed with it. I think that's a very rational and measured argument against such a development.
Can't argue with improving traffic flow, although, building an underpass to solve every snag sounds extreme. Considering the half arsed attempt they made at the Southern Expressway, Governments in this state do not have a good track record of actually solving real world problems.
Well, the Trams in the city are certainly unnecessary, in light of other more pressing issues, such as public education.
Basically, when all of the cornerstones that support our community are well taken care of and funded properly and functioning well, namely Health, Education, Social Welfare - then we can build those skyscrapers with any leftover funds.
But then, I'm an idealist. Our politicians are only ever interested in remaining in power. It's not a good mix.

Huh?, health, education, and social welfare are appropriately funded. Go to some Asian or African countries to see the difference, even the USA. Why oh why does every cent of public funds have to be spent on health and education. It already has a large budget, so theres no need to spend over it.

Come on Neuropolis, I thought I was reading a letter to the Adv editor for a moment.

It's really simple and despite my tiredness today, I will try to be lucid.

First of all, I don't care that the private sector build skyscrapers. Government rubber stamp it.
Nor am I interested that other countries have systems wracked by poverty. That's not an argument because I'm not talking about it.
Comparing our system to those of others is merely a way to detract from the debate, not an actual argument.

As people living in a society, we understand that there are basic foundations in place that need to be maintained at optimum levels in order for our communities to function well.

Health, social welfare, education - these are all areas that receive funds, but are not optimally organised or maintained.

For example, public education has been systematically underfunded for at least the last 15 years. The current Government push is to introduce so called 'Superschools'. This is an attempt to streamline a public system that is simply not working as it should be. My prediction is that in 20 years time when these new schools have failed, there will be a call to decentralise once more.

Likewise, Mental health is a gross necessity, yet it receives little attention and is underfunded.

The recent failed attempt to close country hospitals is also an example of the vast disjunction between this current Govt and the needs of the community.

All comparisons aside (and they are frankly, irrelevant to my argument), these systems are far from optimally funded and maintained. And yet, we are talking about irrelevant and grandiose development in this city as if they are the only things that matter, while the people who really form the glue in our society - teachers, carers, nurses, social workers, metal health workers - are sidelined.

We are far too concerned in this society - and it's endemic in the Australian psyche - with building a shiny new sports stadium or nice new Marinas that ruin coastlines so we can squeeze a few more tourist $$ in, than actually evolving and improving quality of life.

In my view, glass towers and stadiums are the absolute last things that should be built.

The smartest Government is the Government in Opposition. They can say what they like and be as noble as they like in order to get votes. Once they are in power, Governments turn into shambling incompetents with no care but for their own base needs.

[Omicron]

Again, if we already have the infrastructure and it can be improved for less money, leaving more money for other cornerstones like Education, then I see no good reason to proceed with it. I think that's a very rational and measured argument against such a development.
Can't argue with improving traffic flow, although, building an underpass to solve every snag sounds extreme. Considering the half arsed attempt they made at the Southern Expressway, Governments in this state do not have a good track record of actually solving real world problems.
Well, the Trams in the city are certainly unnecessary, in light of other more pressing issues, such as public education.
Basically, when all of the cornerstones that support our community are well taken care of and funded properly and functioning well, namely Health, Education, Social Welfare - then we can build those skyscrapers with any leftover funds.
But then, I'm an idealist. Our politicians are only ever interested in remaining in power. It's not a good mix.

Huh?, health, education, and social welfare are appropriately funded. Go to some Asian or African countries to see the difference, even the USA. Why oh why does every cent of public funds have to be spent on health and education. It already has a large budget, so theres no need to spend over it.

Come on Neuropolis, I thought I was reading a letter to the Adv editor for a moment.

It's really simple and despite my tiredness today, I will try to be lucid.

First of all, I don't care that the private sector build skyscrapers. Government rubber stamp it.
Nor am I interested that other countries have systems wracked by poverty. That's not an argument because I'm not talking about it.
Comparing our system to those of others is merely a way to detract from the debate, not an actual argument.

As people living in a society, we understand that there are basic foundations in place that need to be maintained at optimum levels in order for our communities to function well.

Health, social welfare, education - these are all areas that receive funds, but are not optimally organised or maintained.

For example, public education has been systematically underfunded for at least the last 15 years. The current Government push is to introduce so called 'Superschools'. This is an attempt to streamline a public system that is simply not working as it should be. My prediction is that in 20 years time when these new schools have failed, there will be a call to decentralise once more.

Likewise, Mental health is a gross necessity, yet it receives little attention and is underfunded.

The recent failed attempt to close country hospitals is also an example of the vast disjunction between this current Govt and the needs of the community.

All comparisons aside (and they are frankly, irrelevant to my argument), these systems are far from optimally funded and maintained. And yet, we are talking about irrelevant and grandiose development in this city as if they are the only things that matter, while the people who really form the glue in our society - teachers, carers, nurses, social workers, metal health workers - are sidelined.

We are far too concerned in this society - and it's endemic in the Australian psyche - with building a shiny new sports stadium or nice new Marinas that ruin coastlines so we can squeeze a few more tourist $$ in, than actually evolving and improving quality of life.

In my view, glass towers and stadiums are the absolute last things that should be built.

The smartest Government is the Government in Opposition. They can say what they like and be as noble as they like in order to get votes. Once they are in power, Governments turn into shambling incompetents with no care but for their own base needs.

Panem et Circenses, Mr, Neuropolis.

[Neuropolis]

Indeed, indeed.
...and the cycle continues...trapped in the fabric of history repeating.
The bread is tasting more like sourdough every day.

[Jim]

mate, Adelaide isn't the only place where people whinge and complain number one.

and no matter if you are in Adelaide, Melbourne or Brisbane...every city has it's problems and therefore people from each city will always have something to say about making it a better place, whether constructive criticism is used or if it comes from a NIMBY perspective so to speak (pardon my tendancy to put people in two general boxes).

the reality however; is that one of Adelaide's percieved problems which regularly comes up is that it is a 'overgrown country town' depsite it being one of Australia's major capital cities home to 1.1 million people. This criticism is obviously a reflection on government, citizen attitudes, birth rate, immigration levels and the skyline to only mention a few.

Cruise.. PEOPLE ARE LEAVING ADELAIDE. FACT! people are actually leaving Adelaide because many love and see it as a good place; but want it to grow up and change and for a multitude of other reasons also reflected in the aforementioned paragraph. Did you know the South Australian State Government has in the past undertaken initiative to attract ex-SA residents back home... This is (but was more so in the past because currently the economy is doing well) a major problem.

to answer your question: people are leaving and although they love Adelaide, they see it's potential however it gets frustrating when things don't get ahead like they do in other states. whether real or percieved in many cases, this is what is happening. and people are leaving all the time.

Adelaide is not the only city with wingers
Totally agree, I was in Melbourne recently, and after all the hassles and wingers we hear in Adelaide in the media about our trams, trains, schools, and hospitals and how we are trailing the other states it was looking forward to some positive Melbourne news after all like Adelaide there are lots of cranes on the skyline.
But no, the local Melbourne papers and media were full dire warnings of falling hospital,, trams, old trains and so on it I thought I had picked up the Advertiser.

[monotonehell]

Panem et Circenses, Mr, Neuropolis.

Brilliant idea! We can build an inner city stadium, big enough to hold the majority of our population, hand out bread to anyone who attends and hold Games in it. I favour ones involving Christians and Lions. - This works into the River Zoo and bring Monarto to the CBD ideas posted elsewhere, except the lions (and other suitable animals) will get an outing at the Coliseum ... I mean Stadium!

Pax Rannius!

[Shuz]

If its owned by News Limited, you might as well just call every frickin' paper the Advertiser.

[Omicron]

Panem et Circenses, Mr, Neuropolis.

Brilliant idea! We can build an inner city stadium, big enough to hold the majority of our population, hand out bread to anyone who attends and hold Games in it. I favour ones involving Christians and Lions. - This works into the River Zoo and bring Monarto to the CBD ideas posted elsewhere, except the lions (and other suitable animals) will get an outing at the Coliseum ... I mean Stadium!

Pax Rannius!

*hoses down*