News & Discussion: Regional Transport

[Somebody]

Wilfy,

Would you be in support of a railcar service from Gawler to Wyong via Angaston, Broken Hill, Parkes, Lithgow, Lidcombe, Hornsby and Gosford?

Somebody,

You have always said I was the Dribbler, looks like the tables have turned Mate.

Regards,

I didn't say that I was in support of that idea. I was asking if you were, mate

Would you use it if it ran?

[jk1237]

um broadguage, do you know L2 on SSC by any chance

[Pat28]

Fair enough

If the current trains are already full by Gawler than adding more patronage north of Gawler will only make things worse. Adding another two trains per hour (10 minute frequency) would provide the additional capacity desired.

If you are saying that people drive to Gawler and then catch the train - what difference to overcrowding would it make if they catch it from Angaston? The answer is none - the same number of passengers will still be on the train from Gawler southwards.

Current overcrowding is thus an invalid argument for extending services beyond Gawler.

NB: Some Victorian on one of their Public Transport Activists sites have suggested a "10 minutes to everywhere" timetable, so its easier to remember when the next bus train or tram comes.

[sarail]

This is my first post on this board, so be nice to me (for the first post at any rate!)

Wilfy, you know that I support the return of services to the Valley!

I do however feel that the issues surrounding the overcrowding of services is a long-term issue thats been successfully overlooked/ignored by decades of uncaring governments, who are only ever interested in egtting more suburban bus routes on the roads - BUT thats the issue in itself. Gawler is the only outer-suburb township/city without a suburban bus route. Thus for those wishing to commute to the city, there is no other alternative. Therefore the easiest option (without purchasing new rollingstock) would be to simply run a few express services from Gawler to Adelaide, not stopping at the interediate stations, as the current trains do (ie Smithfield, Elizabeth Salisbury, Mozzie Lakes). These services could also be extended (one each way, per day) to service Nuriootpa and Tanunda (I dont feel there is a need to Angaston, although i'd happily see trains return (hell we even cleaned up the yard!). Of course the purchase of new rollingstock is always the easiest option, but theres probably not alot of point until the electrification project is complete, and the network is standardised.

I note that you mentioned that PSP want to move a further 250,000tonnes of limestone from Penrice Quarry. If this is the case, there is a much reduced chance of seeing a passenger service on the line, unless there is significant investment in infrastructure (ie signalling, crossing loops, station facilities etc), as to move that sort of tonnage, there would have to be a second train run each day, as the current stone train is already running at capacity. Back in December 2005 (I can't believe its been that long) when I gave my presentation at the Saving the Barossa Bluebirds public forum, I mentioned that I had been informed that the quarry only had another 25 years life, before the natural resources at the site had been used. Now, with the request to move greater tonnages, the life of the quarry (in my logic) would be greatly reduced... correct?

I hope I havent stepped on anyones toes!

[Somebody]

Encouraging long distance commuting - yucky yuck yuck.

[Wilfy 2007]

This is my first post on this board, so be nice to me (for the first post at any rate!)

Wilfy, you know that I support the return of services to the Valley!

I do however feel that the issues surrounding the overcrowding of services is a long-term issue thats been successfully overlooked/ignored by decades of uncaring governments, who are only ever interested in egtting more suburban bus routes on the roads - BUT thats the issue in itself. Gawler is the only outer-suburb township/city without a suburban bus route. Thus for those wishing to commute to the city, there is no other alternative. Therefore the easiest option (without purchasing new rollingstock) would be to simply run a few express services from Gawler to Adelaide, not stopping at the interediate stations, as the current trains do (ie Smithfield, Elizabeth Salisbury, Mozzie Lakes). These services could also be extended (one each way, per day) to service Nuriootpa and Tanunda (I dont feel there is a need to Angaston, although i'd happily see trains return (hell we even cleaned up the yard!). Of course the purchase of new rollingstock is always the easiest option, but theres probably not alot of point until the electrification project is complete, and the network is standardised.

I note that you mentioned that PSP want to move a further 250,000tonnes of limestone from Penrice Quarry. If this is the case, there is a much reduced chance of seeing a passenger service on the line, unless there is significant investment in infrastructure (ie signalling, crossing loops, station facilities etc), as to move that sort of tonnage, there would have to be a second train run each day, as the current stone train is already running at capacity. Back in December 2005 (I can't believe its been that long) when I gave my presentation at the Saving the Barossa Bluebirds public forum, I mentioned that I had been informed that the quarry only had another 25 years life, before the natural resources at the site had been used. Now, with the request to move greater tonnages, the life of the quarry (in my logic) would be greatly reduced... correct?

I hope I havent stepped on anyones toes!

sarail,

Welcome to the SA forum.

A couple of post's back drwaddles sugessted 10 minute frequency for 1 hour.

This sounds like the way to go, as for the busiest hour you could have a train every 10 to help move the masses.

Drwaddles thanks for your input.

Sarail your input about a through service is also good input but I think the track condition would be a major hurdle. maybe this is something that can be planned for when the line is finally upgraded.

Have you put in your Submission to the Parliamentary Enquiry.

Regards,

[ozisnowman]

Having read the governments brochure about the planned Adelaide train network
upgrade including standardisation and electrification. They mention that
upon completion the frequencies shall be increased to every 10 minutes during
peak and 15 minutes off peak, not sure about night and weekends probably
every 1/2 hour. This will be a huge step in the right direction, i believe
that the services will become so popular that they will have to expand the
lines to Aldinga for the Norlunga Line, Barossa for the Galwer Line, Flinders
Medical Centre for the Tonsley Line and Mount Barker for the Belair Line,
also i see that the Belair Line will eventually get electrified but the Government
is probably going to wait for some federal funding there, to sort out the issue
with the tunnels etc.

Along with the planned TOD's Adelaide may well look very different in a
few decades from now.

[sarail]

Wilfy,
I have emailed Dennis offering my support, and added a few suggestions, but there aren't enough hours in the day to put together a full-blown submission.
The track is slowly being upgraded, with newly packed ballast, ballast replacement (I believe last week, 704 was involved in Ballast train operations between Gawler East and Lyndoch), level crossing re-sleepering/repairs, lifting of long-standing TSR's, platform re-facing/re-surfacing at Tanunda.

I dont believe that 10 minute services would work (at the present point in time) for several reasons a) not enough rollingstock b) way too many TSR's in place c) TA's "new and improved" signalling system is crap, even though it was designed to cope with 2-3 minute headways..

Somebody, did I miss something? Whats the issue with long-distance commuting? I wouldnt exactly be calling Gawler-Adelaide long distance... in comparison with other capital cities, Gawler-Adelaide would only be travelling "next door".

[Shuz]

Gawler-Adelaide is a long distance, stopping at every station as it is a metropolitian service. The networks used by Sydney and Melbourne's CityRail and V-Line are intermittent services, which allow trains to run at faster operational speeds therefore minimising the journey time.

How long does the all-stops Gawler trip take?
I'm sure if you stopped at only Mawson Lakes, Salisbury, Elizabeth, Gawler and the Barossa, it would be a much quicker trip than the metropolitian service. 30 minutes absolute maximum if you had the track condition, rollingstock and electrification in prime working order.

[Norman]

Gawler Central is about 42km from Adelaide. An all-express on good track with good rolling stick should take about 30-35 minutes. Currently, a express train from Gawler Central (stopping Smithfield, Elizabeth, Salisbury & Mawson Lakes) takes about 48 minutes. This would probably be reduced by 7-10 minutes with track being fixed up and better rolling stock put in place.

An all-stopper takes about an hour.

[Somebody]

A couple of post's back drwaddles sugessted 10 minute frequency for 1 hour.

This sounds like the way to go, as for the busiest hour you could have a train every 10 to help move the masses.

Drwaddles thanks for your input.

I thought he was suggesting an all-day 10-minute frequency, not a peak frequency. Knowing him

[Mr.Frodo]

Not so much regarding the Barossa service, but regarding the overcrowding - I catch the Gawler Train at Elizabeth station around 7.50 or so, which gets me in the City around 8.30, usually only Fridays and some Thursdays. I have been doing this for about 6 months and have had to stand once. At this time I have never thought the trains to be crowded, except maybe from Mawson Lakes, even then, I would classify it is getting near full, but still plenty of people could fit on. I would have thought this would be classed as a peak-time?

[kenget]

Not so much regarding the Barossa service, but regarding the overcrowding - I catch the Gawler Train at Elizabeth station around 7.50 or so, which gets me in the City around 8.30, usually only Fridays and some Thursdays. I have been doing this for about 6 months and have had to stand once. At this time I have never thought the trains to be crowded, except maybe from Mawson Lakes, even then, I would classify it is getting near full, but still plenty of people could fit on. I would have thought this would be classed as a peak-time?

Sorry, had to ask... But how many other people need to stand?

[Mr.Frodo]

Good one! But no from Elizabeth there is plenty of spare seats, at Salisbury it fills up pretty well, sometimes some people stand, but if you get on at Mawson Lakes, you would be pretty lucky to get a seat. Not saying that I don't support a train to the Barossa though, it sounds like a great idea, just my on the overcrowding.

[RiseHigh]

I dont usually catch many trains but when i do it would be late on the weekend, i used to use the noarlunga line now i have moved its the belair line why do adelaides trains leave adelaide no later than midnight, unless you wanna get to the train station by then your up for a 60 buck cab ride. Whats goin on??