[DEF] AAMI Stadium Upgrade | $100m | 52,000

[Prince George]

Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing that $100M at AAMI would be money well spent, nor am I saying that a multipurpose venue wouldn't be a nice thing to have. What I am arguing against is the notion that building a new stadium downtown will boost life and energy in the city.

That is why I draw the comparison with AAMI on gameday - 20-40,000 people is a significant number to pull into the area, and that's been happening for almost 20 years. Has that led to a renaissance in West Lakes?

Here in Seattle there are two massive stadia right next to downtown: Safeco Field, a $500M 45,000 seat baseball field; and Qwest Field, the $360+M 67,000 seat football ground that will also host the new major league soccer franchise. I cannot see what life they have added to the city, even though each regularly draw huge crowds of people. The only interesting destinations around the grounds are to the north of them in Pioneer Square, all of which predate the stadia by a huge margin. If they really were effective pumps for attracting people into areas, you might imagine that there would be development in the areas south or east of them, but there simply is not. And, once again, these aren't new stadia, they've been in the area for some time now, certainly long enough to start having an affect if they ever are going to.

Professional sports and the facilities they demand are parasites, not symbiotes: they take more than they give. I doubt that any of these facilities will ever pay for themselves; if they did, then the private sector would pay for it and governments wouldn't have to. When we build a stadium, at least acknowledge that the only real reason for doing so is to house this or that team. Let's not kid ourselves that it's an investment in the city.

[LAT]

Interesting you mention Seattle has a couple of stadiums near downtown and it doesn't boost the energy or life in the downtown area. I'm not sure if it is a cultural thing in the US, however I live in Melbourne which also has two stadium in the CBD and without doubt the CBD is more lively when a sporting event is on either at the Telstra Dome or the MCG. In fact all of the major sporting facilities are all within the precinct Rod Laver/Vodaphone for concerts/sport etc, athletics track and they are now building a 3rd stadium for soccer/rugby.

I think what is key to having that link between having a lively CBD where there is sporting facilities close to CBD is, dare I say it, having a lively CBD... I am not familiar with Seattle however have traveled to many cities on the west coast of the US before and their downtown area is nothing more than desolate when the workers have jumped in their cars to commute back to the suburbs. Adelaide, like Melbourne, has a population that actually live in the CBD, many bars and restaurants and also importantly if it was located in the railyards, good access to public transport. From my perspective having lived in a city where your social experience of going to sport is enhanced by being able to catch up with friends for dinner, a beer before/after the game, shopping etc the advantages provide by sporting facility is not even a point of debate, it happens here every week of the year, it has been proven...

Its a real shame but I think we all know on this forum if past form is anything to go by, and lets be honest, SA governments are nothing else if not predictable, there is buckleys chance of a stadium in the CBD, which is a real shame because the time is right now a) A desolate, delapodated stadium in AAMI is ripe for demolishment before too much more is invested, b)There is available land in the railyards, before they build the hospital and c) Great opportunity to build life in the CBD.

All this which would pay for itself if you combined the money saved by not building a railway to AAMI, the money already committed to the upgrade, the difference between upgrading the existing RAH and the cost to build a new facility, selling the land AAMI is currently on for housing and cost other sports are looking to invest in duplicating additional sporting facilities.

[Cruise]

Homebush stadium is up for sale, for less than it cost to construct.
Docklands stadium is still in the red, still a few years before it will be in the black.
Stadiums are risky investments.

As for Adelaide United, well, If they are going to consistencly get 16,000 to a game (not just the odd one) a new stadium, or even an upgraded Hindmarsh stadium will have to eventuate at some time.

Although using Football Park or Adelaide Oval as a our main soccer venue is enough to make me sick. I like purpose built venues myself

[Cruise]

And as for the railyards being used as a hospital, The government must have good reason for this, Reasons they for some reason won't tell.

Beacause believe it or not, Mike Rann does not engineer all new infastructure himself.

[Paulns]

IMO, the fact that it is not of FIFA standards is just one of the smaller reasons that AAMI Stadium should be demolished. Yes, it is true that Hindmarsh and AO are not big enough and that you can barely watch a football match from the Northern Grandstand of AAMI and they expect us to watch soccer matches from it (PUH-LEASE!), however, there are at least 2 other big reasons that AAMI needs to be rebuilt.
The first is the economic benefits. With a stadium in the CBD, many, MANY people would go to see a match and the SANFL would gain a lot of money (FAR MORE MONEY THAN WHAT THEY EARN WHILST HAVING THAT PIECE OF JUNK UP AT WEST LAKES). Another group that would have an economic benefit would be the businesses in the CBD -AND BOY ARE THERE MANY!!!
The second is the convenience. With a stadium in the city, not only would supporters go to see a match, but so would tourists, etc. that happen to be exploring the city. For example, when I went for a school trip to Melbourne during May of this year, we decided that we would go to see the Kangaroos play the Bulldogs at Telstra Dome despite the fact that none of the 40-50odd students supported for either of the teams. If Kennet hadn't come in and built Telstra Dome, Melbourne would have still been stuck with Waverley Park (which is similar to AAMI and Subiaco -Subiaco is getting knocked down...) and not only would we have not gone to the match, but neither would the business people and other tourists that I could see all around the place.
The third reason is that AAMI Stadium is outdated. AS I mentioned above, you can barely watch a football match from the northern grandstand, and somehow we're expected to watch soccer matches. Don't anyone start that pathetic whinge that Australia isn't going to host the World Cup, because according to Rann and Whicker during March or April or whenever it was, the main reason that they were upgrading AAMI was so that it could be suitable for World-Class Soccer matches. AAMI is also outdated because it was built in the 70's when Aussie Rules itself was played in a different style. It was during a time when stadiums were built to have a lot of standing room and that is precisely what AAMI and Subiaco have -and that is precisely the reason that Subiaco is going to get knocked down. Now PLEASE don't anyone start that argument that we don't have enough money and it therefore does not justify to build a $1billion Stadium, because the 'billion dollar figure' is just another pie in the sky number that Media Mike and Furious Foley have been throwing into the papers, into the radio and onto the television screens. If it apparently costs $1billion AUD, could they explain why:
• For the 2006 World Cup in Germany, 3.7 billion euros (currently equivalent to $A6.5bn) was spent to build and modernise 12 venues? That averages on about $500million for each stadium.
• In November of 2006, the estimated cost for the now abandoned concept of Stadium New Zealand was (at a maximum) $650 million?
• The cost for the actual Stadium WA is in fact priced at $800 million. That ‘$1.1billion’ figure is also made up by about $300 million worth of property acquisition, associated infrastructure, escalation, transport infrastructure and other costs??? All that we want in Adelaide is a sole stadium on a place like the rail yards site, which is on top of a public transport interchange, is not currently under the ownership of private households, etc. and DOES NOT REQUIRE CONVENTION CENTRES, HOTELS, ETC. BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY ARE NEXT DOOR AND/OR JUST ACROSS THE ROAD!
Just on that Stadium WA issue, why can’t Rann go down the path that his Labor counterparts in WA did and ‘choose not to go down that path’ of renovating Subiaco? AND WHY IS IT THAT ANDREW DEMETRIOU PERSONALLY INTERVENED AND CONVINCED THE WAFC TO MOVE?!?!? YET FOR WHATEVER STUPID REASON, HE IS SUPPORTING THE SANFL IN STAYING AT AAMI STADIUM!!!!!

Hallelujah that's exactly what I was thinking!!!

The idea of building a new stadium, in the cbd(or downtown area), is to build one that is a multipurpose venue.
Such a stadium would have retractable seating, which would come into play when A-League matches are held there or other sports which require a rectangular playing field.

I completly agree with what your saying. As I've said before, Sydney's ANZ Stadium (Stadium Australia) currantly has the retractable seating function which works perfectly well between the rectangular sports of Rugby League, Union and Soccer and the Oval shaped sports of Aussie Rules Football and Cricket.

Personally I would love to see a Multipurpose stadium in Adelaide that is a hybrid of ANZ Stadium and Telstra Dome. That being a modern stadium of around 60,000 that has a retractable roof, covered seating and retractable stands, built over the railway site on North Terrace!!!! That is my Vision. We can only HOPE!!

Ohhh and who said that the AFL is dying??? That is sooo laughable, today after the Grand Final the AFL this year will break the ALL TIME ATTENDENCE RECORD!!! 7.1 million people for season 2008!!!! Not bad for a dometic football competion in a country that has a population barely over 20 million people. Oh yeah if the AFL is dying why do they want to create 2 more teams and increase the size of the league? And lets not forget the passion that Tasmania is creating with their attempt to to enter!!!!!!

The AFL is far from dying but in this state just like the A-League soccer, its screaming out for better facilities... Its time that the all these codes along with the governments at all levels pulled there heads together to come up with a better more workable solution for the greater benefit of all South Australians regardless of which code we support.

[Cruise]

I completly agree with what your saying. As I've said before, Sydney's ANZ Stadium (Stadium Australia) currantly has the retractable seating function which works perfectly well between the rectangular sports of Rugby League, Union and Soccer and the Oval shaped sports of Aussie Rules Football and Cricket.

It's great for the rectangular field games, not so much for oval field games

[Paulns]

It's great for the rectangular field games, not so much for oval field games

From my own experience its fine for both!!! When I used to live in Sydney for work I went to many Sydney Swans games at ANZ Stadium and field of vision was fine!

[Cruise]

I'm not talking about the vision, because yes it's fine. I'm talking about what it does to the pitch.

[Wayno]

I completly agree with what your saying. As I've said before, Sydney's ANZ Stadium (Stadium Australia) currantly has the retractable seating function which works perfectly well between the rectangular sports of Rugby League, Union and Soccer and the Oval shaped sports of Aussie Rules Football and Cricket.

It's great for the rectangular field games, not so much for oval field games

no no no - i do not concur...it's a great venue for AFL, i've been to many swans games there. such a delightful ground...

[cruel_world00]

I don't understand why the government is not listening to the people. This isn't an issue that has come up as a flavour of the week subject, it has been on going.... almost as long as we have been arguing about water. It doesn't appear to be going away any time soon. Why can't we have a government who are willing to have discourse with the voting public rather than playing the smoke and mirrors game. Give us transparency... please.

/end rant.

[Paulns]

I'm not talking about the vision, because yes it's fine. I'm talking about what it does to the pitch.

I agree there too but luckly the AFL's a winter sport and in this country, the A-league's a summer sport so I reckon if managed properly a new multipurpose stadium could be a massive winner for this state!!!

[Shuz]

I'm beginning to feel that the issue has dragged on for too long, and that we actually need to take this to the street outside Parliament House. The support for a new inner-city stadium is so overwhelming, I'd actually think that it would draw a big enough crowd of support.

How would I or we get such a motion going?

[Prince George]

I am not familiar with Seattle however have traveled to many cities on the west coast of the US before and their downtown area is nothing more than desolate when the workers have jumped in their cars to commute back to the suburbs

While you certainly couldn't mistake Seattle for Paris, it's no Los Angeles either The downtown area has good entertaining areas and indeed the south of downtown, just north of the sports grounds, is one of those -- but that dates back more than a century. The north end of downtown (aka Belltown) has even more and is a veritable thicket of high-rise apartment developments.

I completely agree with you when you say

I think what is key to having that link between having a lively CBD where there is sporting facilities close to CBD is, dare I say it, having a lively CBD.

Yes, I am certain that if there are good destinations then some of the crowd at the grounds would go there as well, but these improvements are, at best, incremental and totally out of proportion with the price. How much quieter is the downtown in Melbourne when there is no event at those grounds? Now consider just how much it cost to create that difference:

Rod Laver Arena - $94 million
Docklands - $250 million
MCG upgrades- $430+ million

Almost $800 million largely from the public purse, that's a heck of an investment to get a marginal improvement. If we feel that the teams in question are worth hundreds of millions of dollars, then we go ahead and spend the money, but let's not claim any other significant benefits will flow on.

[Paulns]

I'm beginning to feel that the issue has dragged on for too long, and that we actually need to take this to the street outside Parliament House. The support for a new inner-city stadium is so overwhelming, I'd actually think that it would draw a big enough crowd of support.

How would I or we get such a motion going?

I'm not sure? Maybe some how get the Advertiser involved seeing that they seem to like jumping on the bandwagon everytime the subject comes up???

Never the less I'd be there if there was a protest!

[rev]

I don't know about Seattle, but Adelaide is full of little bars and such places.
A few tens of thousands of people on weekends in the CBD sure wouldn't be a bad thing for business and the cities economy, thats for sure.

I don't know what your point is about West Lakes and AAMI, Prince George. While I respect your opinion and insight into inner city stadiums in Seattle, we need to look at this idea from an Australian, and more suitably, an Adelaide perspective.
West Lakes is not a major night spot. People do not go to West Lakes when they go 'out on the town'. It's just another suburb with a shopping center. The most activity you'll see at West Lakes on a Friday or Sat night is the local car hoons hanging around McDonalds and the cinema.
The CBD and West Lakes can not be compared, certainly not the effects a stadium would have in each location. It's just not a logical comparison.

Another thing having a stadium in the CBD will help with, is spectator numbers.
Our sports are played on weekends. There are thousands of people in the CBD on weekends. Everyone supports one team or another or follows some sport.
It would be a convinient location for people to go past and catch a game of AFL or A League, then go out and do whatever they planned to do in town.
As it stands now, who wants to drive all the way to West Lakes, then back to town?
There is also a lack of public transport at West Lakes(Yes I know they are planing on a tram line). The buses they have for football are so jam packed and insufficient.
Train station right next to stadium in cbd. Links to north and south. Petrol prices being what they are today...

Another point is costs for clubs. If a multipurpose venue was built, for a variety of sport codes and teams/clubs, costs would come down for each team.
Adelaide isn't a huge metropolis capable of sustaining several major stadiums.(unless a dormant AO and AAMI are anyones idea of sustainable).
Could move athletics as I said to the new stadium. What good is Santos stadium? Used for what...school sports day carnivals more then anything else?

Our major sports codes should be centralised in one multipurpose facility as much as possible. Hell, they could even build an adjacent basketball/netball arena.

And I disagree it wont reinvigorate Adelaide. As we are all aware, and keep hearing about, this state is on the verge of a big mining boom, predicted to be larger then Western Australia's. They are also tipping our next property boom will be this states biggest. What better way to symbolise our prosperity as a state, then with a grand project such as a new stadium, on top of all the transport and other infrastructure works? A cherry on the cake.