News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

[Prince George]

Maybe so, but some discussions end in deciding on a venue and choice of weapons. So many lives wasted in the name of honour *sigh*.

You offend my honour, Sir! Pistols at dawn, corner of 3rd and Blaine - on Queen Anne! (and only you and she will know what I mean by that )

Oh ho! Sir, the thing you are in want of is a funeral, I shall see that you shall have it! I learned how to deal with bounders like you in the Army. Err, whose dawn - yours or mine?

It may be more appropriate to convene at Terry & Valley in South Lake Union: that would be on the new trolley lines. It's almost laughably short (that honour goes to the monorail, which actually is laughably short) and attracts the anti-transit crowd who get to say "look at all the money that was spent on this and it doesn't go anywhere". But the residents in South Lake Union and Eastlake actually paid extra for it, and are starting to see their house values increase in the face of the slowdown.

(Further off topic, we could both be waiting at the corner of 3rd and Blaine on Queen Anne and not meet each other. Blaine crosses both 3rd Av N and 3rd Av W. Ah, grid naming - it makes more sense when you're over here than it does looking at the map)

I am in complete agreement that different systems service different land patterns. And that is what makes me sick to see this talk of TODs, of infrastructure upgrades, and of sustainability coming from a state government that then also releases land for several thousand houses in remote greenbelt locations. Deeds not words, Rann & Foley.

<snip bike story>
That's a very encouraging anecdote there. But why do you have to bike to a station to catch a bus? Shouldn't the bus come to you? Otherwise it should be a train. I've thought up crazy schemes of open sided rail cars that have bike racks as well as a door. Although all this talk of bikes makes me think that you're some kind of communist hippie. I also think Omicron would have something negative to say about your apparent attraction to voluntary exercise.

Good sir FBI investigator, I assure you this red I wear is only the Royal Ermine. And it's only coincidence that my name is the same as the King that prompted the revolutionary war.

Why do I go to a station to catch a bus? Remember, this is America. The bus from my house only takes me as far as the interchange. The metro area is cut in two by Lake Washington, which is only crossed in two places - by the SR-520 and the I-90 floating bridges. Yes, these bridges float on concrete pontoons. I believe that the 520 bridge is the longest floating bridge in the world. So that's a massive bottleneck for the cross city traffic. At the start of the 520 bridge the buses have their last stop on the west-side - that combination of bus-stops is called the "Montlake / SR-520 freeway station".

The bus that I catch there (the 545) is about as close as this area has to bus-rapid-transit, but only because they try to run frequent services on it. It has none of the advantages that the O-Bahn has as it has to travel on shared roads. There isn't even a HOV lane on the bridge (there is on I-90). And in this ballot someone put forth a motion to allow single-occupant cars to drive in the carpool lane during non-peak hours, the first step in simply doing away with them.

Now, if Prop 1 (Mass Transit Now!) is passed, they will end up with quite a smorgasbord of items in their transit:

• Intercity heavy rail
• Light rail within the Seattle metro area
• Trolley lines in some neighbourhoods
• Express buses
• Local buses (not shown on that map)

Mind you, that full spectrum will only get completed in about 2020. And, of course, they are still sprawling. For a full rundown of the transit picture up here, look no further than The Seattle Transit Blog

[AtD]

Just a quick point, I was on the O-Bahn recently again, and I still see that, even in peak, about 75% of people got off at TTP and other stations along the track, and a few got on at TTP as it continued into the suburbs.

Just throwing more data into the information fire.

What route number? That occurs on the Js and similar - but the suburban routes stay quite packed until they cruise the suburban roads.

I think it's most of them. Back when I lived with my folks, my local bus was the 505. When that became the 545 and went via TTP, the bus was remarkably busier leaving the city but emptier after TTP (which would be attributed to the higher frequency). It was typical for near standing room out of the city but only a dozen passengers past TTP.

And of course, they have the wonderful habit of running articulated feeders onto smaller rigid city buses.

[monotonehell]

And of course, they have the wonderful habit of running articulated feeders onto smaller rigid city buses.

ARRRRRGHHHH!!! That vexes me so! It happens a lot. Many times I've been shoehorned into a tiny rigid for the after 9pm thursday night rush jet bus from the city. Only to be extruded at Paradise to meet the connecting bus. Which is a farkin' artic for 5 people. I know artics are in short supply but seriously, connecting night buses need to be BIGGARR! /rant

[drwaddles]

...standard busway fire engines and ambulances (even taxis) can use it too.

A lot of people think that, but unguided busways never work well. The textbook example is the Orange line in LA. Guiding a busway allows greater speeds safely, in a corridor narrower than a rail corridor. Also if it's just another road, you get none of the ToD encouragement that a rail line or guided track provides. An unguided busway is not seen as permanent infrastructure in the eyes of the public. A famous unguided busway in LA (whose name completely escapes me now!) started life as bus only (with emergency vehicle exceptions) and then was opened to car pooling and now has been sold off as a pay for use freeway for normal vehiclular traffic.

Putting down tracks, rail or obahn, gives a corridor some protection from those who would pervert its use to just another road.

Not sure about your idea for an alternative future for the tramway...

Let's just ignore SEQ's busways for the moment, seeing as they don't help your arguments

[monotonehell]

Let's just ignore SEQ's busways for the moment, seeing as they don't help your arguments

Let's not just use throw aways like that -- I have no idea what you mean. Please explain.

[Somebody]

How on earth can you be making these claims about regular busways not working, when you claim to have not even heard of the main example of them in Australia, being SEQ's busway network?

Don't make comments on these things unless you actually know, and don't ignore facts because they don't support your argument.

[muzzamo]

[AG]

Rann turns to Canberra
John Wiseman | November 07, 2008
SOUTH Australia is staring at a $400 million budget blackhole, which will wipe out projected surpluses for years to come, but the Rann Government is clinging to hopes that it can still oversee record spending on infrastructure.

It is relying on Canberra to make that possible, while state Treasury officials are poring over the state's finances and projects to determine what the budgetary red ink will cross out.

Public sector job losses, spending cuts and deferment or cancellation of major capital works are on the table, but Treasurer Kevin Foley refuses to reveal the impacts until next month's mid-year economic review.

He has already deferred $500billion in spending on a new prison complex.

South Australia will lose $126million from the GST this financial year.

State tax revenue is estimated to fall by $100 million, but if unemployment rises and the property market slows, that figure could rise markedly.

The Treasurer has to find an extra $150 million to cover unfunded superannuation liabilities.

Mr Foley has quarantined from the chopping block plans for a series of superschools, the $1.7billion new central hospital and $1.4 billion desalination plant.

Premier Mike Rann hopes the Rudd Government will rescue the centrepiece of the last state budget -- a $2 billion electrification of Adelaide's rail network and extension of its tram lines.

The Premier said yesterday that while the state would have to "trim its sails" it could bring several projects forward.

He said he hoped to receive a positive announcement from the Rudd Government next month to fund the rail electrification.

[jk1237]

Don't make comments on these things unless you actually know, and don't ignore facts because they don't support your argument.

Anyone can make comments on anything they like. Also, Ive now realised that your siamese twin is on here too, drwaddles. This could get interesting

[frank1]

Rann turns to Canberra

He has already deferred $500billion in spending on a new prison complex.

That is one expensive prison. Is it solid gold or something

[drwaddles]

Don't make comments on these things unless you actually know, and don't ignore facts because they don't support your argument.

Anyone can make comments on anything they like. Also, Ive now realised that your siamese twin is on here too, drwaddles. This could get interesting

Hi eastadl

[Shuz]

Well, if its anything like the one in Gwen Stefani's The Sweet Escape, you'd think so.

[jk1237]

Don't make comments on these things unless you actually know, and don't ignore facts because they don't support your argument.

Anyone can make comments on anything they like. Also, Ive now realised that your siamese twin is on here too, drwaddles. This could get interesting

Hi eastadl

howdy crazyknightsfan

taking an interest in Adelaide affairs I see.

[monotonehell]

How on earth can you be making these claims about regular busways not working, when you claim to have not even heard of the main example of them in Australia, being SEQ's busway network?

Don't make comments on these things unless you actually know, and don't ignore facts because they don't support your argument.

Please don't make assumptions about my ignorance being on purpose. I've not come across anything on this busway in any of the literature. I'm all about hearing new evidence and reassessing my position. That aside, the apparent success of the SEQ busway supports my points not the contrary.

The history of unguided busways is a sad one unfortunately, with most being undermined by the addition of single passenger vehicle use. That plus added safety and speed puts guided busways ahead of unguided ones. That's how I can make these claims.

I'll have to go and see what's to read about these Brisbane busways you've mentioned. Sounds interesting. The current section's been opened since 2001, I'm really surprised I've not seen anything about it as yet Even a Google search reveals very little. Need to dig some more.

[drwaddles]

Please don't make assumptions about my ignorance being on purpose. I've not come across anything on this busway in any of the literature. I'm all about hearing new evidence and reassessing my position.

Having read your generally good posts, with well-thought-out and knowledgeable arguments I suspected that you did indeed know about the SEQ busways but were ignoring them intentionally because they don't help your arguments promoting a guided busway. I guess I anticipated you more than you did