ONH: [Port Adelaide] Newport Quays | $1.2b

[Will]

So whats the word on the next stage?

Urban Construct are going to appeal the decision regarding stage 3 in the courts.

And thanks for the update Adam! although somewhat bland I nevertheless find this stage somewhat attractive and it's great to see that they have a tenant for one of the retail tenancies. I thought it would take years to find a tenant.

[muzzamo]

Where are all the people?

Looks like a ghost town...

I wonder how many units were bought by speculators hoping for a quick buck but now refusing to sell at a loss...

[teflon fox]

Where are all the people?

Looks like a ghost town...

I wonder how many units were bought by speculators hoping for a quick buck but now refusing to sell at a loss...

Well they'll be holding on to them for a long time then !
How about the full page add from Urban Construct in the paper today
for their apartments. I think they are struggling to move them at
the moment.

[muzzamo]

Well they'll be holding on to them for a long time then !
How about the full page add from Urban Construct in the paper today
for their apartments. I think they are struggling to move them at
the moment.

No they were told "property only ever goes up", "nothing is safer than bricks and mortar" etc.

Unfortunately there were no greater fools that they could onsell the apartments onto

[Prince George]

AtD, did you happen to take any pictures on the other side of the development, out on Causeway Road? If anyone wants to know why it is that the NIMBY's get so upset about developments like this, I think that you'll find your answer there.

Right from the start, the parcel of land that they're working with has a big barrier between it and the surrounding areas: Causeway Road and then the railway tracks. The fundamental problem for them to solve, and one that they should have had some funds available for given their $2b budget, is how to integrate this new development with the neighbourhood. In the first stage by the Ethelton station, it seems that they gave up altogether. Apart from a pedestrian crossing at the railway station, the only entrance is by Rennie rd. The message that I get from looking at it is that they don't have any intention of engaging with Ethelton at all; it seems like a divide between "we have the waterfront, and you have not".

In this next stage, have they corrected that mistake? I can't actually see how you get into this precinct: all the renders, all the photos are from the river side. Where are the streets that feed into here? Obviously Rennie and presumably something feeding off Semaphore Road, but where else? If I was a local resident, how would I walk from one side to the other to see the water? If I bought in that development, what would I have to do to get to, say, the Cumberland Hotel?

So what are the locals going to get from all this? A redeveloped waterfront that's not particularly easy to get to, a bunch of new buildings that look like a tarted up westlakes, and they lose the views that they once had. It's not hard to see why they don't want it.

In the interest of full disclosure, the Queen and I used to live in Glanville, on Sutherland St which points directly at this latest stage. It was a cheap-and-cheerful neighbourhood, rough around the edges, but a good place. One of the little pleasures that I enjoyed was the morning view looking over the river and the port to the hills when the sun was rising, which I would see as I was walking over to the Ethelton station. Now, that view from our street would be gone, and even from the station where you used to look over wattles and scrub land, you now have a charming view of where people park.

(Edit - silly me, the Ethelton station, not Glanville)

[AtD]

Prince, I didn't take any new shots of the western face because it was too hard! The only vehicular access to the second stage is over the level crossing at Rennie Road then along the back of stage one and under the bridge. The only pedestrian extra access (that I could tell) was via the bridge.

[Paulns]

Right from the start, the parcel of land that they're working with has a big barrier between it and the surrounding areas: Causeway Road and then the railway tracks. The fundamental problem for them to solve, and one that they should have had some funds available for given their $2b budget, is how to integrate this new development with the neighbourhood. In the first stage by the Glanville station, it seems that they gave up altogether. Apart from a pedestrian crossing at the railway station, the only entrance is by Rennie rd. The message that I get from looking at it is that they don't have any intention of engaging with Ethelton at all; it seems like a divide between "we have the waterfront, and you have not".

I think as a part of this the development, one of the conditions should of been an upgrade of the Glanville station so atleast the wider community gets something??

[Shuz]

[jk1237]

what is going on here. We whinge about the endless low density sprawl and when we finally develop some infill med-high density housing near 2 railway stations on prev disused industrial land, we're still not happy. This style and architecture of this development is all over the world. Surely people on here arent advocating that it should have been subdivided into quarter acre blocks with mcmansions, and maintain this silly notion that anything over 3 levels in the suburbs is just evil.

This development is more than OK. Atd's pictures look better than I expected. If no one has moved in yet caus its just finished, its hardly gonna be full of life just yet.

end of rant

[AtD]

You can't blame the developers for thinking a freight rail line and a major truckies route (Causeway Rd) would be a bad thing to highlight. I'm sure it's better now the new bridges are open, but it is still a heavy rail line.

A station upgrade is desperately needed, however. Hopefully it's bundled in with the electrification and standardisation work.

[Prince George]

what is going on here. We whinge about the endless low density sprawl and when we finally develop some infill med-high density housing near 2 railway stations on prev disused industrial land, we're still not happy. This style and architecture of this development is all over the world. Surely people on here arent advocating that it should have been subdivided into quarter acre blocks with mcmansions, and maintain this silly notion that anything over 3 levels in the suburbs is just evil.

Your post contains part of your answer. Not only can this style and architecture can be found all over the world, this development could have been built almost anywhere with little or no change. Even the way that the sole entrance leads to a connector road that in turn feeds each stage gives me the impression that this whole thing was designed by drag-and-drop: open the "Contemporary multirise units" collection, drag a marina over to a suitable parcel of land, now just connect a street to the back, click click click, job done, money please. No, I'm not saying that's actually how they designed it, but I bet that they did design each piece in almost total isolation, as if the surrounding area didn't exist at all.

Let me give another example, suppose you were going to add some rooms to your house and you hired an architect to draw it up. What would you say if you were told "This is a bunch of rooms that I've used before, they would fit on the area that you've got free in the backyard. Let's just build them there" ? What if you said "But these rooms aren't even connected to the rest of my house" and got the reply "Connecting the two would be too much work, I'd have to relocate all the doors and make awkward structural changes; and besides your house is Federation style while my rooms are concrete-and-glass" ?

All architecture, building, and development occur within a context; developments like this try to ignore the context as much as possible to reduce the amount of work that must be invested into it, combining laziness and penny-pinching. This produces worse outcomes for the community, which exacerbates NIMBYism, but also worse outcomes for the developers themselves. Suppose you were a potential customer for this project, you have a variety of alternatives that you might choose. The city and it's surrounding areas, Glenelg, Henley Beach, Brighton; all of them might have places that you could consider as well, why would you choose this one? By failing to engage with the surrounding area, they've thrown away an ace that they had up their sleeve - Semaphore is a cool part of town. If they invest extra money and effort in connecting the two properly, they get a payoff in return by gaining some appeal that these isolated boxes currently lack.

I love to see multi-family buildings going up in Adelaide, but not just any old buildings built the simplest way possible. I'm very fond of the Semaphore area, and I want to see renewal there - this is not renewing anything. The Lipson Street Apartments (now Port Adelaide Central Apartments, I think) are a great example of the kind of renewal projects that can point to a new Port Adelaide and new Semaphore, not just another contribution to the world-wide spread of the place-with-no-name.

BTW, don't get me started on having this stuff built between two well serviced railway stations and also having so much parking.

[jk1237]

well I went down there yesterday afternoon to see for myself and I thought it was brilliant. There are parks strategically placed ie theres one that allows the Glanville Wharf pub to see straight across to the Port still. The part right under the St Vincent St bridge has got a little car park (could'nt be used for anything else). Its great to see hardly any surface level car parking. Under the bridge there is still a pier where quite a few families were fishing off the river. The river front promenade is great for a walk. There were 2 dolphins swimming right past me at the time. There were quite a few people walking around. The latest stage looks good and will be great when the cafe is open. The views across to Birkenhead bridge from there are fantastic.

It doesnt really matter that there is only 1 road entrance. As long as there will be pedestrian access crossings into the existing suburbs. Theres already direct pedestrian access at Ethelton Station from the development, and one would think there would be to Glanville once that next stage is built. Theres direct access (via staircase) from the St Vincent St bridge too, for pedestrians

All Im saying Prince George, is dont be so negative until you have seen it in person.

[Edgar]

I have been following on this development almost since the beginning a few years back. However, I did not see any issues from the start and not until recently, that I finally realised how difficult it is to develop this area.

Not that it is hard to develop this area, but it is just difficult to incorporate all factors of favoritism from the local communities, local council, and the developer themselves to come to a perfect agreement of what should be built. And please understand how difficult it is before throwing any criticisms at anyone, the NIMBYs, the Developer, the local councils as well as the people posting in this thread.

Let me just break down what each of the parties would like to achieve in this development:

1) The local communities, would not want anything above 5 storeys building being built. They wouldn't want anything that would cast a shadow onto their house. They wouldn't want anything that would block their view (despite the fact that there is no view from their house anyway in the first place). All they want is a nicer place for their viewing pleasure. This is what the local council should be pro-actively develop, not leave it to developers and they don't spend anything themselves.

2) The local council wants public access to all areas of the development. They want proper pedestrian footpath, proper car parkings, proper public access to the water, or around the area. They also want an open space or a 'square' so people can spend time gathering in the area, this is also to keep the local residents happy and to make themself look good.

3) The developer wants to jam-packed the areas with high-density residential living, which comprises of unit/townhouses, and apartments. The developer would also like to incorporate a marina or two in the area to target the local and inter-state higher-class citizens to invest in the area to make it 'look-good' and 'expensive'. This will hopefully bring good books for the developer's name by 'rejuvenating' the Port.


Now here are the effects of the Stage 1 'Edgewater' (now completed) development:

1) The local communities are fine with it. First of all, they are all townhouses/units which will never cast a shadow or block their views in anyway.

2) The local council are already not very happy with the end results as it proves that there is lack of public access around the area. This is a classic example of the effects of the Delfin developments in West Lakes as half of the areas or access to the lake itself are not very accessible except for the owner of the house in front of it. But the point is, it is not very inviting to the general public but to the owner themselves.

3) The developer managed to complete the Stage 1 without too much drama. However, it causes its own drama as it constantly reveals the plans for the following Stages (even though they are half-approved plans, the developer makes it look like it is happening) and hence, the lack of investors in Stage 1, as everybody is expecting to invest in Stage 2A and the Grand Stage 2B and Stage 3. The volatile market quickly elevated the property values in Phase 1, which makes the situation worse as more investors are interested in the up-coming Phases.


Following on Stage 2A 'Marina Cove' :

1) The local communities objected the initial plan as they deemed it being too tall, and is casting shadows as well as blocking their view. The height of the buildings were reduced significantly to make the local people happy. Although it's not all good news with some people as they object any mid-high rise developments around the area. But their lack of interpretation are deemed negative by all and often labeled as NIMBYs by us.

2) As an effects of Stage 1, the local council now highly stresses on public access around the area. Council also stresses on the design of the building on the western-end, which is supposedly facing the local residents as well as the main road, also the beach, which they claimed was ugly. They have learned the lessons from the developments and is now placing high standard in planning designs for the up coming Stages.

3) The developer continues to pack the area without much public access. Now the problems being, because the area is separated by the main railway lines between the main road, public access to the area are hard to provide. Another problems being the main entry to Stage 2 will have to joint by access from Stage 1 (via Rennie Rd). Not the most ideal situation considering the fact that we will now have some high-density population in the area when everyone eventually moves in.


The Uncertainties in Stage 2B and Stage 3:

1) The local communities felt defeated after the two apartments were approved and built in Stage 2A. They continue to oppose any future developments in this area.

2) The local council is now aware of the problems and effects coming from Stage 1 and the soon-to-be-completed Stage 2A. And again, primarily stressing on public access in the area and the overall designs/layouts of their plan. After a record number of Stage 2B and Stage 3 proposals, countless times of modification and re-submissions, and still not being granted approval by the assessment panel, the council is thinking of axing the projects as they think that the developer fails to comply with the requirements, or simply, the developer is not fit to take on this project.

3) The developer is now in trouble. Stage 1 can hardly attract many investors, their yet-to-be fully completed Stage 2A is not very welcomed and is already posing some problems, and now their Stage 2B and Stage 3 faces the risk of being canceled, so are the remaining of the developments in and around Port Adelaide. They are not willing to trade some areas in their development plan for some public areas/access as it means that their grand buildings would have to be compromised to accommodate the loss in space.


Now what do I think::

1) Now inevitably, there shall or will not be any public access that I can see happening between Causeway Rd and Stage 1 & Stage 2B. It is just not possible, to build a bridge (just an example) just for the sake of 'Public Access' and to walk around the area is a stupid idea. As much as the local council would like this to happen, I just think it is a ridiculous idea.

2) Take a look at this and we shall understand what does the local council/residents meant by 'public access' (a term they all love the use):

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... 8&t=h&z=18

*Switch to Satellite view*

Now if you look at the Western side of the river, it's the New Port Quay's completed Stage 1 development called the Edgewater. Look across the river to the eastern side, and compare the both. Which one looks more inviting?

Is it the one of the west there it is packed with housings and lack of move around or the more inviting lawns with pedestrian/bike trial on the other side?

This is what the local communities and the local council strive to achieve with the developer but it ain't happening.

3) Stage 2B and Stage 3, the highlight of the project is its prime location. Located on the edge of the river overlooking both eastern and southern view of the river making it the most important project of the New Port Quays. However, again due to access around the port location, the developer will have to trade half of the areas in Stage 2B and Stage 3 with say, an open space or possibly what we would love to call one, the 'Port Square', then it would keep everyone happy.


Now there is still hope to save the re-developments at our Port. We, as in the local residents, local council, the developer, and the rest of us, have to move on and forget what has done in Stage 1 and Stage 2A. Nothing can be done to change it, the buildings and units have been built, the two apartments have been built and the design plans have been laid.

But there are still hopes to make the rest of the developments better. I would suggest the developer to disregard making the Stage 2B and Stage 3 its prime and grand project and leave it to the local council as to what they want to do with it. As I have expected, I think a wide open space with a few historic pieces of statues making a 'Port Square' would be much accepted by every one.

Developing Stage 2B (the one beside Stage 2A Marina Cove) would be a wiser idea due to its location still besides the rail. However we might want an open space in Stage 3 and purely for commercial purposes.

The developer still has the full remaining Stage 4 for an ultra-high density residential plans (as in the original plan).

[AtD]

Now here are the effects of the Stage 1 'Edgewater' (now completed) development:

2) The local council are already not very happy with the end results as it proves that there is lack of public access around the area. This is a classic example of the effects of the Delfin developments in West Lakes as half of the areas or access to the lake itself are not very accessible except for the owner of the house in front of it. But the point is, it is not very inviting to the general public but to the owner themselves.

I'm not sure what you mean. The waterfront is open to the public along the entire length of the development along a very wide path. There is no private waterfront. The only waterfront which isn't accessible by the public is the protected mangroves between the level crossing and the rail bridge. There are large green belts between the blocks of residences creating links though the project. The biggest impediment to public access is the rail line.

1) Now inevitably, there shall or will not be any public access that I can see happening between Causeway Rd and Stage 1 & Stage 2B. It is just not possible, to build a bridge (just an example) just for the sake of 'Public Access' and to walk around the area is a stupid idea. As much as the local council would like this to happen, I just think it is a ridiculous idea.

It would also probably require action on behalf of the Department of Transport, Energy and Infrastructure.

2) Take a look at this and we shall understand what does the local council/residents meant by 'public access' (a term they all love the use):

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... 8&t=h&z=18

*Switch to Satellite view*

Now if you look at the Western side of the river, it's the New Port Quay's completed Stage 1 development called the Edgewater. Look across the river to the eastern side, and compare the both. Which one looks more inviting?

Is it the one of the west there it is packed with housings and lack of move around or the more inviting lawns with pedestrian/bike trial on the other side?

This is what the local communities and the local council strive to achieve with the developer but it ain't happening.

I assume you're talking of the area north of the rail bridge and south of the St. Jervois Bridge. I'm not sure what you're asking us to look at. The western side at least has open space between the blocks of housing. Both sides have unrestricted access to the waterfront - the eastern with a bitumen path and lawn while the western with a large paved area. Since the satellite image was taken, trees have been added along the waterfront.

Here is a photo of Stage 1 from October 2007.


And a photo of Stage 2 from the other week.


With the completion of Stage 2, the western side actually has more green space. The between the bridge and the townhouses to the north is now all public open space in the form of lawns and a playground. In my visit last week, the finishing touches were still being applied to the landscaping and the area was not yet open.

Also, I've dug up this photo of the western face of Stage 2 from September 2008:


I think if there were any more windows on the west of the towers, the developers would face complaints regarding loss of privacy from the nearby residents.

[skyliner]

With others who have suggested integration of the stations, I agree. I have been on that line in Dec 2007 and thought it all rather disgustiing. Glanville is just a windswept platform - once had 7 tracks and a station bldg. I think a bus shelter was on the platform. I hope suitable modification with electrification eventuates. As it was it reminded me of Terowie - the one time end of the broad gauge toward Peterborough. (Terowie now abandoned).

What is happerning on the west side of Causway Rd? The whole area looked so bare.

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