Riverlea (Buckland Park) | 12,000 dwellings | $3b

[Cruise]

A business out to make money? who would have thought?

[rhino]

A business out to make money? who would have thought?

There are ways that businesses like this can make money while still being a little more socially responsible. It involves less profit. You know this.

[Prince George]

San Berdino.

Is calling San Bernadino San Berdino a bit like us calling Port Augusta Portagutta? I've also seen James Ellroy refer to it as San Berdoo. I like to call Naracoorte Nackeroote, but it tends to piss off the locals.

Anyways, I'm with you and AtD on this one. Someone (Walker Corp) is out for a quick buck.

Oops! That's what happens when you first hear about a place through a Frank Zappa song. *ahem* I'd like to apologise to the good people of San Bernadino, and to the estate of Frank Zappa.

Cruise, of course the business wants to make money, that's why you don't just accept everything that they say. When there's big sums of money floating around (and you can be sure that this project would net them a truckload of money), they've got a pretty compelling reason to say that something's going to be the goodest goodness that ever gooded the good, good, good, irrespective of what it actually involves. That's why independent opinions or advice are compelling, and why all these articles written by stadium architects at stadium design and engineering firms about how terrific a new stadium is for a city are not.

[Norman]

From the ABC:

Transport concerns for Buckland development

The Playford City Council says plans for a new town at Buckland Park on the Adelaide Plains do not explain how nearby communities will be affected.

The Walker Corporation wants to build businesses and homes to accommodate 33,000 people.

The company recently put out an environmental impact statement for the community to respond to, which drew 40 responses.

The Greens Party says the development would create an urban ghetto and isolate residents.

The Council's general manager, Kate Atkinson, says a key concern is access to public transport in Buckland Park and surrounding townships.

"There is extremely limited public transport available to the Virginia township, in actual fact there is a bus service twice a day for that community," she said.

"We are looking for some assurances that public transport and other community services are going to be addressed in the development of this community."

"Unfortunately I believe the community is concerned that the services will be directed into Buckland Park because it is a comprehensive, planned development and that in actual fact Virginia will miss out," she said.

[Wilfy 2007]

From the ABC:

Transport concerns for Buckland development

The Playford City Council says plans for a new town at Buckland Park on the Adelaide Plains do not explain how nearby communities will be affected.

The Walker Corporation wants to build businesses and homes to accommodate 33,000 people.

The company recently put out an environmental impact statement for the community to respond to, which drew 40 responses.

The Greens Party says the development would create an urban ghetto and isolate residents.

The Council's general manager, Kate Atkinson, says a key concern is access to public transport in Buckland Park and surrounding townships.

"There is extremely limited public transport available to the Virginia township, in actual fact there is a bus service twice a day for that community," she said.

"We are looking for some assurances that public transport and other community services are going to be addressed in the development of this community."

"Unfortunately I believe the community is concerned that the services will be directed into Buckland Park because it is a comprehensive, planned development and that in actual fact Virginia will miss out," she said.

Hi,
While the Rann Government is updating the Railway and Tram system as well as the O-bahn, maybe they can budget for a Railway Branch line off the line to Crystal Brook so that it goes around in a U shape into the Town Centra of Buckland Park.
Pie in the sky stuff, I don't think so, if the development goes ahead it could be the start of of service northwest to Port Augusta.
Regards,

[fabricator]

As far as driving goes, without breaking the law, I can tell you for a fact, it takes 45 to 50 minutes to drive to North Terrace from Buckland Park in 5-00pm traffic, it takes 15 to 20 minutes from Buckland Park to Elizabeth Shopping Centre car park anytime of the day, 20 to 25 minutes to munno para shopping centre anytime of the day and it takes about 45 minutes to the centre of Gawler in the middle of the day.
35 minutes and your at the sub base and destroyer base.
These are facts, not computor estimated times. This is not even close to comparable to Sydney traffic.

Hence the nearest decent shopping centre takes at least 1/2 an hour return trip, and this is also the nearest train station as well. The result is 20 minutes + 31 minutes on the train + time spent walking, result faster to drive to work.

The real problem with this development is that unlike many previous ones it is an isolated area instead of being tacked onto an existing township or urban area. Hence there are problems with transport, employment, community and other services which aren't readily available. Note the term 'readily', 1/2 hour return trip to buy milk, visit the post office/council is going to cause problems. What about schools, shops, sporting facilities ?

Just for once I would like to see plans for an estate with the bus route in place, and the various facilities not pre-pended with the word 'future'. Is it too much to ask that the Land Management Corporation (government owned) actually ensure developers help plan the entire community, not just the houses.

[Wilfy 2007]

As far as driving goes, without breaking the law, I can tell you for a fact, it takes 45 to 50 minutes to drive to North Terrace from Buckland Park in 5-00pm traffic, it takes 15 to 20 minutes from Buckland Park to Elizabeth Shopping Centre car park anytime of the day, 20 to 25 minutes to munno para shopping centre anytime of the day and it takes about 45 minutes to the centre of Gawler in the middle of the day.
35 minutes and your at the sub base and destroyer base.
These are facts, not computor estimated times. This is not even close to comparable to Sydney traffic.

Hence the nearest decent shopping centre takes at least 1/2 an hour return trip, and this is also the nearest train station as well. The result is 20 minutes + 31 minutes on the train + time spent walking, result faster to drive to work.

The real problem with this development is that unlike many previous ones it is an isolated area instead of being tacked onto an existing township or urban area. Hence there are problems with transport, employment, community and other services which aren't readily available. Note the term 'readily', 1/2 hour return trip to buy milk, visit the post office/council is going to cause problems. What about schools, shops, sporting facilities ?

Just for once I would like to see plans for an estate with the bus route in place, and the various facilities not pre-pended with the word 'future'. Is it too much to ask that the Land Management Corporation (government owned) actually ensure developers help plan the entire community, not just the houses.

fabricator,
Is there no facilities in Virginia for Milk, Bread and a paper.

[Wilfy 2007]

Gidday,
If I remember correctly a rail extension to Virginia is part of the 30 year plan for Adelaide.
But I cannot remember if there was a date for it.
Regarding flooding in this area, this can happen anywhere in Adelaide as I experienced in Salisbury East in the early 80's. The estate where I lived was built on a natural waterway.
Yes there will be more development in the future around rail corridors, but most people choose to live in places like buckland park because of purchase price of house and land. I know it doesn't make sense cause then you have to travel to work and the city. But Mike Rann and Patrick Conlon reckon the northern suburbs are where the expansion is for the whole of Adelaide at the moment and in the near future.
So maybe there will be Public Transport for the Virginia and Buckland Park in the near future.
Regards,

[Splashmo]

fabricator,
Is there no facilities in Virginia for Milk, Bread and a paper.

Would you yourself live in Buckland Park? Is it not ridiculous that they would build a settlement for 33,000 people and yet not ensure there were any transport facilities or shops or other things that we expect near our homes?

[AG]

With the planned construction of the Northern Connector and the rail corridor associated with it, there is an opportunity to make use of the capacity freed up on the existing corridor via Salisbury for other uses. The existing ARTC track space could be used for TransAdelaide services for the Gawler Line and potentially part of an expansion of the network to the proposed Buckland Park township, since most of the corridor already exists up to Virginia via Salisbury (and is already the correct gauge if the TransAdelaide network is converted to standard gauge). Another option is to account for possible future urban growth on the western side of Port Wakefield Road and build train stations within the Northern Connector corridor in a similar manner to how Perth's new train lines have been constructed and provide a service to Buckland Park via this route, resulting in freight and suburban trains sharing the same tracks. There are potential issues with ownership and operational rights with both of those plans that would need to be sorted.

[Wilfy 2007]

fabricator,
Is there no facilities in Virginia for Milk, Bread and a paper.

Would you yourself live in Buckland Park? Is it not ridiculous that they would build a settlement for 33,000 people and yet not ensure there were any transport facilities or shops or other things that we expect near our homes?

Is it ridiculous or typical.
I have lived in new subdivisions of Adelaide suburbia and not had public transport or shops handy.
Yes I would live in Buckland Park cause it is a lot closer to all things than other cities in this great country.

[P.K.]

Would you yourself live in Buckland Park? Is it not ridiculous that they would build a settlement for 33,000 people and yet not ensure there were any transport facilities or shops or other things that we expect near our homes?

would i live there, yes I would, yes i do.

Tell me, would you run 20 buses per day to a place with a population of 50 people? of course not! there is no public transport now because there is no requirement! I thought that was obvious?
Personally i'd rather drive anyway, and if i cant afford to do that, I'll buy a cheaper car to run, who wants to stand on a crowded bus or train anyway? whats the big deal with public transport anyway? who cares if there is no public transport? if you build a nice new house in an area where there is no public transport, and you only realise after the cooling off period that you dont have a car, then who's the goose!

Im not a public transport fan anyway, in fact i think you'll find that is the way the majority of Adelaide thinks? We have to think of the future you say? there is no more fuel! $3 per litre bla bla bla, i'll buy a bloody hibrid or electric car, you can keep your buses. but thats just me

As for shops, I believe stage 1 includes a shopping precinct, even so, its a 5 minute drive to virginia (woolworths,takeaway, variety, pub, servos, hardware....) or less than 10 miutes to two wells, more shops, pubs etc...

[mattblack]

Would you yourself live in Buckland Park? Is it not ridiculous that they would build a settlement for 33,000 people and yet not ensure there were any transport facilities or shops or other things that we expect near our homes?

would i live there, yes I would, yes i do.

Tell me, would you run 20 buses per day to a place with a population of 50 people? of course not! there is no public transport now because there is no requirement! I thought that was obvious?
Personally i'd rather drive anyway, and if i cant afford to do that, I'll buy a cheaper car to run, who wants to stand on a crowded bus or train anyway? whats the big deal with public transport anyway? who cares if there is no public transport? if you build a nice new house in an area where there is no public transport, and you only realise after the cooling off period that you dont have a car, then who's the goose!

Im not a public transport fan anyway, in fact i think you'll find that is the way the majority of Adelaide thinks? We have to think of the future you say? there is no more fuel! $3 per litre bla bla bla, i'll buy a bloody hibrid or electric car, you can keep your buses. but thats just me

As for shops, I believe stage 1 includes a shopping precinct, even so, its a 5 minute drive to virginia (woolworths,takeaway, variety, pub, servos, hardware....) or less than 10 miutes to two wells, more shops, pubs etc...

Thank god your not a planner !! I bet you'd be one of the first ones complaining how clogged the roads are, and that your trip in your nice hybrid takes five times longer than what it did 10 years ago. :wank:

[AG]

Tell me, would you run 20 buses per day to a place with a population of 50 people? of course not! there is no public transport now because there is no requirement! I thought that was obvious?
Personally i'd rather drive anyway, and if i cant afford to do that, I'll buy a cheaper car to run, who wants to stand on a crowded bus or train anyway? whats the big deal with public transport anyway? who cares if there is no public transport? if you build a nice new house in an area where there is no public transport, and you only realise after the cooling off period that you dont have a car, then who's the goose!

Im not a public transport fan anyway, in fact i think you'll find that is the way the majority of Adelaide thinks? We have to think of the future you say? there is no more fuel! $3 per litre bla bla bla, i'll buy a bloody hibrid or electric car, you can keep your buses. but thats just me

This is all good if being able to drive suits yourself, but you need to consider that if the plan for Buckland Park takes place the population could be up to 660 times what it is now (if claims of the the town housing 33000 people and your claims of the area having a population of 50 both hold true), and not everyone is capable of driving all the time. Providing public transport shouldn't be about providing a replacement to driving, but an alternative option particularly to those who can not drive. Most Adelaideans certainly don't think highly of public transport, but that's likely to result from the fact that most commuters have bad experiences with Adelaide's public transport network in particular because it doesn't adequately meet the current needs of the community.

[AG]

Just to give those an idea of where the Buckland Park development is proposed to take place relative to the existing urban areas and planned infrastructure, here is a map from the Department of Planning and Local Government:
http://www.planning.sa.gov.au/images/dm ... iteMap.jpg