News & Discussion: Public Transport Contracts, Service & Policy

[Archer]

I don't know what others are experiencing with the current Public Transport Ticketing system at the moment, but I'm starting to have concerns about how much longer it can last.

With the replacement system (whatever that may be) not scheduled for completion until 2013/2013, that leaves the best part of 3-4 years with the existing system.

In the last 2 months I have had roughly 50% of my tickets fail for no apparent reason, up until 2 months ago, I'd never had a ticket fail.
This morning, everyone on my train into the city had their tickets rejected at the validation gates in the city. I didn't realise that reason for this until a few minutes later when I got on a bus and had a second trip used on my ticket. Turns out the train had incorrectly validated the tickets as expiring at 10pm last night!

So I guess the question is, with the apparent (from my experience) increase in ticket failures and other problems seen with the ticketing system, is it going to last until the replacement system arrives in 2012/2013?

[Aidan]

I don't know what others are experiencing with the current Public Transport Ticketing system at the moment, but I'm starting to have concerns about how much longer it can last.

With the replacement system (whatever that may be) not scheduled for completion until 2013/2013, that leaves the best part of 3-4 years with the existing system.

In the last 2 months I have had roughly 50% of my tickets fail for no apparent reason, up until 2 months ago, I'd never had a ticket fail.
This morning, everyone on my train into the city had their tickets rejected at the validation gates in the city. I didn't realise that reason for this until a few minutes later when I got on a bus and had a second trip used on my ticket. Turns out the train had incorrectly validated the tickets as expiring at 10pm last night!

So I guess the question is, with the apparent (from my experience) increase in ticket failures and other problems seen with the ticketing system, is it going to last until the replacement system arrives in 2012/2013?

It's going to last until its replacement arrives, whenever that is. Though validator clock failure is a serious problem, it is fixable, and I'm sure it will be dealt with quickly (if it hasn't already been). I've encountered the problem a couple of times before, but neither were this year.

And if tickets fail for no apparent reason, it's almost certainly magnetic damage. The tickets only have a weak magnetic strip, and it's always been fairly easy to accidentally erase it. TransAdelaide (and STA before them) used to stress that it's your fault and not their problem. But nowadays they just accept that tickets will occasionally get damaged, and replacing them is less hassle than failing to do so.

Adelaide is not (or at least not yet) the only city in the world to use Crouzet tickets. I'm sure we can last another four years if necessary.

[fabricator]

In the last 2 months I have had roughly 50% of my tickets fail for no apparent reason, up until 2 months ago, I'd never had a ticket fail.
This morning, everyone on my train into the city had their tickets rejected at the validation gates in the city. I didn't realise that reason for this until a few minutes later when I got on a bus and had a second trip used on my ticket. Turns out the train had incorrectly validated the tickets as expiring at 10pm last night!

So I guess the question is, with the apparent (from my experience) increase in ticket failures and other problems seen with the ticketing system, is it going to last until the replacement system arrives in 2012/2013?

It's going to last until its replacement arrives, whenever that is. Though validator clock failure is a serious problem, it is fixable, and I'm sure it will be dealt with quickly (if it hasn't already been). I've encountered the problem a couple of times before, but neither were this year.

The train drivers as supposed to check the time when the clock on, most likely they need reprogramming after the train has been powered down.

[monotonehell]

...In the last 2 months I have had roughly 50% of my tickets fail for no apparent reason, up until 2 months ago, I'd never had a ticket fail.
This morning, everyone on my train into the city had their tickets rejected at the validation gates in the city. I didn't realise that reason for this until a few minutes later when I got on a bus and had a second trip used on my ticket. Turns out the train had incorrectly validated the tickets as expiring at 10pm last night!

So I guess the question is, with the apparent (from my experience) increase in ticket failures and other problems seen with the ticketing system, is it going to last until the replacement system arrives in 2012/2013?

The failure rate is becoming a concern lately. But nothing like 50%. More like 5%. It does add up to lost revenue.

I think there's something you are doing to erase your tickets if you're experiencing that level of rejects (keeping them near your mobile phone, credit cards or other source of electro-magnetism). I ride the OBahn every week day and only have had one or two failures in recent memory. Of those both worked on the next trip.

It will last, it's just that the spares are in short (or non existent) supply. Luckily they are very simple technology, so any electronic engineer with knowledge of pre '90's electronic gubbins can hack a fix. Unlike today's gear which is pretty much throw away modules.

I just hope whatever new system is selected, is appropriate and reliable. So many ticketing farces in other cities.

[The Scooter Guy]

On some of the new Scania O-Bahn buses, there are brand new bus tickets for seniors & they are green on green instead of the conventional blue, red or black on white!

[Hooligan]

On some of the new Scania O-Bahn buses, there are brand new bus tickets for seniors & they are green on green instead of the conventional blue, red or black on white!

Good to see their free travel will be documented.

[Aidan]

The train drivers as supposed to check the time when the clock on, most likely they need reprogramming after the train has been powered down.

Trains powering down is a frequent event, and shouldn't affect the validators at all. It there's a problem it could indicate a hardware fault, so reprogramming alone is unlikely to be sufficient.

I think there's something you are doing to erase your tickets if you're experiencing that level of rejects (keeping them near your mobile phone, credit cards or other source of electro-magnetism).

<pedant>It's magnetism, not electro-magnetism.</pedant>

Laptop computers are another source. Since people stopped using floppies, computer manufacturers have started using permanent magnets a bit more.

It will last, it's just that the spares are in short (or non existent) supply.

As I said before, we're not the only city to use them. We may be able to get them from somewhere else that switches to smartcards before us.

Having said that, apart from the buses of Warsaw, I don't know of anywhere else they're used.

I just hope whatever new system is selected, is appropriate and reliable. So many ticketing farces in other cities.

The main benefit of waiting is so that the bugs can be fixed before it's in operation.

[Aidan]

On some of the new Scania O-Bahn buses, there are brand new bus tickets for seniors & they are green on green instead of the conventional blue, red or black on white!

Actually that's all of the Adelaide buses. The seniors are ticketted as bikes because the machines couldn't hold any more codes.

It seems to me like an absurd waste of paper - letting them on without tickets would probably be quicker, and I can't see the value of the data gained exceeding the cost of the ticket manufacture.

[Pistol]

As I said before, we're not the only city to use them. We may be able to get them from somewhere else that switches to smartcards before us.

Hobart uses them on their buses and are in the process of upgrading to smartcards.
That is really depressing that we might be buying old stock from Tasmania to keep our ticketing system working.

[monotonehell]

<pedant>It's magnetism, not electro-magnetism.</pedant>

Pfft you think you're the pedant...

Ever since Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity unified magnetic fields and electric fields in 1905 the term has been electromagnetism.

What you should have picked me up on was putting a hyphen in there.

[Aidan]

<pedant>It's magnetism, not electro-magnetism.</pedant>

Pfft you think you're the pedant...

Ever since Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity unified magnetic fields and electric fields in 1905 the term has been electromagnetism.

Einstein's special theory of relativity did no such thing. Maxwell's theory (on which it was based) established exactly how they were related, but electric fields and magnetic fields continue to be different things. The tickets are susceptible to magnetic fields, but not electric fields.

[peachy]

<pedant>It's magnetism, not electro-magnetism.</pedant>

Pfft you think you're the pedant...

Ever since Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity unified magnetic fields and electric fields in 1905 the term has been electromagnetism.

Einstein's special theory of relativity did no such thing. Maxwell's theory (on which it was based) established exactly how they were related, but electric fields and magnetic fields continue to be different things. The tickets are susceptible to magnetic fields, but not electric fields.

Wahoo, physics fight! How appropriate for science week!

Magnetism is electromagnetism just without an electric component, so you can't say it is magnetism not electromagnetism. You are right that electric and magnetic fields are different, but more in the same sense that water and ice are different. They have different properties but are made up of the same fundamental particles. And a changing electric field creates a magnetic field, thanks Maxwell, so in a way an electric field could indirectly affect a ticket (although it would do it through a magnetic field) but now i am just being pedantic . Anyway i hope this makes sense (and is correct to the letter) and that we have all had a bit of fun with physics.

I should know, im a physicist (thats why it will bring much embarrisment if something i said is wrong )

[monotonehell]

What Peachy said.

[Archer]

I think there's something you are doing to erase your tickets if you're experiencing that level of rejects (keeping them near your mobile phone, credit cards or other source of electro-magnetism).

Somehow I find that Hard to beleive. I have been a daily commuter on the train for the last 4.5 years, and somewhat less frequently but still on a weekly basis in the 5 years before that. In all of that time I have not had a ticket fail at all, until the last 2 months or so. In that time I have not changed how I store my tickets. I do now carry a laptop with me fairly regularly, but I have been doing that for at least 6 months.

I think a more likely explanation is that the magnetic encoding on the tickets is becoming weaker as the equipment gets older, making them far more susceptable to damage and erasure. Which still indicates that the system is slowly failing.

Anyway, just to rule it out I'll change where I'm keeping my tickets and isolate them a bit more, but I don't think it'll make much diffrence.

oh, and thanks for the Physics lesson guys

[fabricator]

I had trouble on the weekend, the second train I boarded refused my ticket, the time on the ticket was correct. So the ticket machine on the second train was the problem.

For those who don't know, its 24 hour time showing when it expires. You can board any vehicle before the time expires, handy when you have 5 minutes left and the train pulls in

eg 19 2 is 7:20pm, which subtracted the two hours means you first boarded at 5:20pm

Its also possible some ticket machines have bad read/write heads, the magnetic heads are much the same as those in cassette players, and wear out at some point. Or are misaligned, end result is some tickets may not work. I've seen one of the gate validators do this.