News & Discussion: CBD Real Estate & Market Conditions

[Wayno]

I'm not so sure, Wayno. That's a slippery slope IMO.

I kinda agree - just throwing it out there. Let's examine 75sqm vs 55sqm as an example:

75sqm
* Three bedrooms (3mx3m, 2.5mx3m, 2.5mx3m) = 24sqm
* Main Bathroom (2mx4m) = 8sqm
* Laundry + extra loo (2mx4m) = 8sqm
* Kitchen (3mx4m) = 12sqm
* Living Room (4mx5m) = 20sqm
* Hallway (3mx1m) = 3sqm

55sqm
* Two bedrooms (3mx3m) = 18sqm
* Main Bathroom incl laundry (2mx5m) = 10sqm
* Kitchen (3mx3m) = 9sqm
* Living Room (3mx5m) = 15sqm
* Hallway (3mx1m) = 3sqm

Note: excludes balcony and space consumed by internal walls.

IF a smaller apartment size was justified/permitted for student accomm, then the number of such apartments should be capped - perhaps as a % of the CBd population?

just brainstorming - pls don't e-slap me

[stelaras]

I agree so far with what skyliner and wayno are saying..

As a multi-cultural (hate that word) city we should be looking to capitalise on the mistakes of the Eastern states. We are unique in that we are smaller in size, have a better quality of life and for the most part all our major universities are within easy reach of the CBD.

As far as student accommodation is concerned a 30m2 unit is really not adequate. I like Wayno's ide of a cap based on % of city living residents, but there should be some essential minimal criteria that need to be met:

I had a bit of a snoop around and this is the minimal requirements that uni of melbourne require: The document can be found here http://www.housing.rmit.edu.au/shoaa/generic.html and even though the website is RMIT the document is actually a Uni of Melb document.

Basically (for those that cant be bothered reading the documents):

Bedroom 12m2 minimum (including wardrobe) if single bedroom abode 11m2 if more than one bedroom.
kitchen 8m2 minimum.
bathroom size as required but a minimum of 1 shower and 1 WC for every 3 students.
laundry size as required (but must contain a linen cupboard all bypass overflows and 5 lineal metres of wall shelves
Living room 17m2 for single bedroom abode and 23m2 for more than one bedroom
All units should have access to either private or semi-private outdoor space (balcony, terrace or courtyard)

So basically the minimum is something between 50 and 60m2

[mooshie]

why should we be limiting what people can live in?

for an individual who is a student and goes out a lot etc, they may just want somewhere to eat and shit (so 2 rooms ) search interstate and look at the options available, some at ridiculous prices. at least it is on offer though, you can also live out in the 'burbs with friends if you want.

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rs ... 1252577035

[Splashmo]

why should we be limiting what people can live in?

for an individual who is a student and goes out a lot etc, they may just want somewhere to eat and shit (so 2 rooms ) search interstate and look at the options available, some at ridiculous prices. at least it is on offer though, you can also live out in the 'burbs with friends if you want.

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rs ... 1252577035

It's not about limiting what people live in - it's setting a minimum. I've been looking at hotels in Japan and there are tiny cheap rooms that are bigger than some of these sizes. Students don't simply go out a lot - they spend most of their time at home studying and relaxing. Can't afford to eat out and go out all the time. Why shouldn't we have standards in Adelaide? It's not as if there's a shortage of physical space in this city.

[PropertyozSA]

S-A Members

Thanks for all the great feedback on this issue, we have picked up much of what you have said. We have now provided our submission to the State Government's International Student Taskforce and will be providing an oral presentation shortly. If you want to check out the submission please click on the link http://www.propertyoz.com.au/sa/Article ... ission=547.

This is clearly one of the big issues to watch but first things first, we need to stop negative comments on student accomodation such as 'suicide boxes' as this helps no-one.

Now to finish off the blasted 30 Year Plan submission - it is only about 65 pages! Will blog it on Wednesday.

Cheers

Nathan
http://www.property.com.au
http://twitter.com/PropertyozSA

[skyliner]

So glad we can be of help mate .

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE

[Will]

This is the latest Adelaide Office Market Report from Rcihard Ellis. It contains some good news, and suggests that we may see large numbers of cranes in the skyline in the not-to-distant future again. This is based on a predicted increased demand from Q2 2010 onward, reduced vacancies from a lack of new supply and of course from strengthening economic growth.

http://www.cbre.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/8B9 ... e_Q309.pdf

[Wayno]

This is the latest Adelaide Office Market Report from Rcihard Ellis. It contains some good news, and suggests that we may see large numbers of cranes in the skyline in the not-to-distant future again. This is based on a predicted increased demand from Q2 2010 onward, reduced vacancies from a lack of new supply and of course from strengthening economic growth.

http://www.cbre.com.au/NR/rdonlyres/8B9 ... e_Q309.pdf

Will, do you know the definition for Core vs Frame vs Fringe 1 vs Fringe 2 properties? Core is probably the CBD, but it would be good to know the definitions. Vacancies in the Fringe 1 & 2 locations seems to be growing - could mean opportunity for conversion from office space to denser residential in some cases.

[AtD]

Will, do you know the definition for Core vs Frame vs Fringe 1 vs Fringe 2 properties? Core is probably the CBD, but it would be good to know the definitions.

I would also love to know these definitions.

[Will]

Wayno and Adam. Core refers to the area bounded by North Terrace, Morphett Street, Pulteney Street and Wakefield Street. Frame are the CBD areas outside of this. Hence, buildings such as CCT1 and the new Santos HQ are considered core, whereas 400KWS, Edge and Wave are Frame.

Fringe-1, refers to areas outside of the CBD but which are close to it regardless, such as Greenhill Road. Fringe-2 refers to areas even further from the CBD, such as Mawson lakes.

[AtD]

Thank you kindly Will. So the Riverside Centre - core or frame?

[Will]

Thank you kindly Will. So the Riverside Centre - core or frame?

That's a hard one. I suspect it would be classified as core, however that's just an educated guess.

[AtD]

Data for the first half of 2010. It looks like they're only releasing a very limited set of stats for free this time round.

http://www.propertyoz.com.au/Advocacy/P ... p=69&id=50 The data is very affordable at just $880...

Just 187 sqm in the Adelaide core. How embarrassing.

Code: Select all

                    Vacancy Rates         6 months July 10
               Jul-10  Jan-10   Change   Supply   Absorption

Sydney CBD        8.5     8.1     0.4    65,632      39,376
North Shore      14.1    13.7     0.4    30,460      21,438
North Ryde       11.3    12.2    -0.9    12,000      17,960
Parramatta       10.7     9.8     0.9     2,967      -3,714
  
Melbourne CBD     6.5     6.6    -0.1    66,754      68,996

Canberra         13.6     na      na        na          na

Brisbane CBD     10.9    11.3    -0.4    22,989      12,516
Brisbane Fringe  12.2    11.4     0.8    60,898      45,262
Gold Coast       23.4    22.4     1.0     2,267      -2,808

Perth CBD         9.9     8.2     1.7    65,802      36,555
West Perth        6.8     6.1     0.7     9,377       6,056

Adelaide Core     7.0     6.2     0.8     8,565         187
Adelaide Frame   11.8    12.7    -0.9     5,840       7,637
Adelaide Fringe   5.6     3.4     2.2         0      -4,377

[Ben]

Data for the first half of 2010. It looks like they're only releasing a very limited set of stats for free this time round.

http://www.propertyoz.com.au/Advocacy/P ... p=69&id=50 The data is very affordable at just $880...

Just 187 sqm in the Adelaide core. How embarrassing.

Code: Select all

                    Vacancy Rates         6 months July 10
               Jul-10  Jan-10   Change   Supply   Absorption

Sydney CBD        8.5     8.1     0.4    65,632      39,376
North Shore      14.1    13.7     0.4    30,460      21,438
North Ryde       11.3    12.2    -0.9    12,000      17,960
Parramatta       10.7     9.8     0.9     2,967      -3,714
  
Melbourne CBD     6.5     6.6    -0.1    66,754      68,996

Canberra         13.6     na      na        na          na

Brisbane CBD     10.9    11.3    -0.4    22,989      12,516
Brisbane Fringe  12.2    11.4     0.8    60,898      45,262
Gold Coast       23.4    22.4     1.0     2,267      -2,808

Perth CBD         9.9     8.2     1.7    65,802      36,555
West Perth        6.8     6.1     0.7     9,377       6,056

Adelaide Core     7.0     6.2     0.8     8,565         187
Adelaide Frame   11.8    12.7    -0.9     5,840       7,637
Adelaide Fringe   5.6     3.4     2.2         0      -4,377

Would that not be because there hasn't been any office developments completed since 2009? It says 8565 but i can;'t think of what that would be from. I think there is nothing to be absorbed?

[crawf]

How depressing...

Worry as city office vacancies soar
http://city-messenger.whereilive.com.au ... -the-city/

OFFICE vacancy rates in the CBD have jumped to a four year high, owing to a “worrying” fall in demand for space.

The Property Council’s Office Market Report, released today (Thursday, February 3), shows the city vacancy rate has risen to 8.3 per cent, up from 8.1 per cent in July and 7.7 per cent a year ago.

Vacancy rates on the city’s outer edge rose from 5.6 per cent to 8.9 per cent, although that largely was driven by 3860 sq m of renovated office buildings returning to the market.

Property Council SA executive director Nathan Paine said the jump in the city rate was concerning.

“The fact that this has come from a withdrawal of demand is certainly a worrying sign that we need to try and address,” Mr Paine said.

“What this effectively says is that there are less people working in the city than there were six months ago.

“We all want the city to grow, we all want the city to be vibrant and active.

“But if vacancy rates continue the reality is we’ll end up back in the situation we had in the 1990s where Adelaide was a ghost town.”

Mr Paine said the increase might be a result of leftover effects of the global financial crisis which were being felt by some sectors.

The Property Council will be speaking with the State Government and the City Council about the report and how to get more local and interstate businesses moving into the heart of the city.

Mr Paine said the high vacancy rate provided Adelaide City Council with an opportunity to boost its population by offering incentives to convert old office buildings into residential developments.

CB Richard Ellis office services director Andrew Bahr said vacancy rates for high-end office space remained tight.

Some businesses were moving from old buildings to more premium locations.

With no new office space to be released until mid 2012, vacancy rates should drop, Mr Bahr said.

“The thing to watch will not be 2011 or 2012 but toward mid-2013; what happens then with a lot of old renovated buildings and new ones coming online,” Mr Bahr said.