News & Discussion: Heritage Buildings

[stumpjumper]

Sad but true, fabricator.

From the preservation point of view, the situation isn't helped by weak and poorly enforced sanctions in state and federal heritage legislation, and by the fact that responsibility for the conservation of cultural heritage is split by legislation and by different government departments. for example, in SA we have three separate heritage authorities - the History Trust (Dept of Premier and Cabinet), the Heritage Branch (Dept for Environment and Heritage), and to a lesser degree, the SA Museum.

[Wayno]

CBD heritage listings soon to go public

visit the abc article to listen to the audio version of the story...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 636255.htm

Homeowners anxious over heritage listing secrecy

Another row is brewing over the process of heritage listing homes and businesses across Adelaide. Several hundred businesses and households in Adelaide will soon find out if their property is up for heritage listing.

The Adelaide City Council has spent months compiling a list of properties it believes are of heritage value. Up to 300 properties are believed to be on the list.

Councillor David Plumridge says it has to be kept private so that owners do not make any drastic changes before their property is included.

"If we made this list public at this stage, then people might rush in and start to try to demolish some of these buildings and that would be a great shame," he said.

But another councillor, Anne Moran, who has been pushing to open the heritage discussion to the public, says the secrecy will lead to long-term ramifications for the council.

"Heritage listing is affecting the ownership and what people can do to their houses," she said.

"While I totally agree with heritage listing I think if you don't bring the homeowners along with you then you are destined eventually to fail, people will get their backs up and resist it."

The council will finalise the list at a meeting next week and hand it to the State Government to be approved for public consultation.

Once it is released, the State Government can slap a protection order on a property to prevent the owner from making changes for up to 12 months.

The outgoing president of the Hutt Street Precinct Association, Tony Williamson, says people are feeling anxious that their property could be listed.

"Well I suppose it comes back to what they are allowed to do with the property," he said. "If it is on a heritage listing there is a degree of anxiety also with the effect to resale value to that property."

Nathan Paine from the Property Council says the extra restrictions that come with heritage listing could impact on values.

"Developers will look at alternate sites within the CBD or interstate," he said.

[Will]

It's no longer a secret. Here is the list. Courtesy of the Advertiser:

PROPERTIES LISTED BY THE ADELAIDE CITY COUNCIL TO BE CONSIDERED FOR LOCAL HERITAGE STATUS - DRAWN UP SEPTEMBER, 2008

71-73 Angas Street

82-86 Angas Street

274-276 Angas Street

275-277 Angas Street

14 Cardwell Street

20 Cardwell Street

24 Cardwell Street

21-31 Chesser Street

22-30 Chesser Street

22-24 Coromandel Place

26 Coromandel Place

98-100 Currie Street

106-108 Currie Street

233-239 Currie Street

241-243 Currie Street

245 Currie Street

15-17 Daly Street

43-47 Flinders Street

49-51 Flinders Street

82 Flinders Street

106-110 Flinders Street

161-175 Flinders Street

71-83 Flinders Street

160-184 Flinders Street

231-233 Flinders Street

237-239 Flinders Street

238-240 Flinders Street

254-258 Flinders Street

5-7 French Street

29-33 Frome Street

42-50 Gawler Place

52-56 Gawler Place

58-60 Gawler Place

62-64 Gawler Place

102-106 Gawler Place

108 Gawler Place

110-112 Gawler Place

13-15 Gawler Place

17-25 Gawler Place

27-29 Gawler Place

15-19 Gilbert Street

21-25 Gilbert Street

47 Gouger Street

71-75 Gouger Street

76 Gouger Street

102-104 Gouger Street

111-119 Gouger Street

91-99 Gouger Street

121-127 Gouger Street

122-126 Gouger Street

128-130 Gouger Street

32-38 Grote Street

75-79 Grote Street

128A Grote Street

130-132 Grote Street

134-140 Grote Street

185-187 Grote Street

38-40 Hindley Street

71 Hindley Street

80-82 Hindley Street

81-89 Hindley Street

94-98 Hindley Street

95-97 Hindley Street

103 Hindley Street

105 Hindley Street

107 Hindley Street

109 Hindley Street

117 Hindley Street

119-119A Hindley StreeT

165-179 Hindley Street

206-208 Hindley Street

27-29 Hindmarsh Square

18 Hume Street

20 Hume Street

26 Hume Street

28 Hume Street

9-11 Hutt Street

13-15 Hutt Street

17-19 Hutt Street

51-57 Hutt Street

91-93 Hutt Street

133-137 Hutt Street

10-12 Kenton Street

11 Kenton Street

15 Kenton Street

25-27 King William Street

135-139 King William Street

338-340 King William Street

346-346A King William Street

348-348A King William Street

350-352 King William Street

361-369 King William Street

377-379 King William Street

381-381A King William Street

383-385 King William Street

387-391 King William Street

393 King William Street

395-397 King William Street

74-80 Light Square

14-16 Market Street

15-19 Market Street

18 Market Street

177-199 Morphett Street

311 Morphett Street

4-8 Nil Street

15 North Street

17 North Street

51-55 North Terrace

139-140 North Terrace

197-198 North Terrace

233-236 North Terrace

14 Oakley Street

16 Oakley Street

18 Oakley Street

22 24 Oakley Street

23 Oakley Street

28 Peel Street

113 Pirie Street

242-244 Pirie Street

12 Rundle Mall

51-53 Rundle Mall

67 Rundle Mall

69 Rundle Mall

71 Rundle Mall

75 Rundle Mall

81-91 Rundle Mall

93-95 Rundle Mall

97 Rundle Mall

99 Rundle Mall

133 Rundle Mall

140 Rundle Mall

182 Rundle Street

184 Rundle Street

186-186A Rundle Street

188 Rundle Street

192-196 Rundle Street

202-204 Rundle Street

203 Rundle Street

206-208 Rundle Street

208 Rundle Street

210 Rundle Street

229 Rundle Street

241-243 Rundle Street

242 Rundle Street

245-251 Rundle Street

253-261 Rundle Street

254-256 Rundle Street

260-262 Rundle Street

264-268 Rundle Street

265-267 Rundle Street

270-274 Rundle Street

276-278 Rundle Street

278A Rundle Street

280 Rundle Street

281-283 Rundle Street

282 Rundle Street

286 Rundle Street

287 Rundle Street

289 Rundle Street

291-293 Rundle Street

171-173 Rundle Street

14 Rundle Street

30 Rundle Street

40-42 Rundle Street

195-197 Victoria Square

263-265 Wakefield Street

277-279 Wakefield Street

282-300 Wakefield Street

16 Waymouth Street

24-28 Waymouth Street

47-49 Waymouth Street

68-72 Waymouth Street

232 Waymouth Street

234-240 Waymouth Street

262-266 Waymouth Street

287 Waymouth Street

289 Waymouth Street

291 Waymouth Street

10-14 Wright Court

128 Wright Street

136 Wright Street

140-142 Wright Street

144-146 Wright Street

148 Wright Street

150-152 Wright Street



PLACES UNLISTED IN 1994 LOCAL HERITAGE REVIEW TO BE CONSIDERED AGAIN

11 Ada Street

12 Ada Street

18-20 Ada Street

316 Angas Street

371-375 Angas Street

16-18 Arthur Street

20 Arthur Street

227-231 Carrington Street

241 Carrington Street

245 Carrington Street

265 Carrington Street

267 Carrington Street

269 Carrington Street

271-273 Carrington Street

293 Carrington Street

297-299 Carrington Street

341-343 Carrington Street

345-349 Carrington Street

346-350 Carrington Street

24 Charlotte Place

30 Charlotte Place

24-26 Chatham Street

19 Claxton Street

21 Claxton Street

23 Claxton Street

38 Delhi Street

135-140 East Terrace

272-275 East Terrace

14 Ely Place

25-39 Gilbert Street

207-213 Gilbert Street

208-210 Gilbert Street

233 Gilbert Street

237-239 Gilbert Street

281 Gilbert Street

136 Gilles Street

241 Gilles Street

243-243A Gilles Street

291 Gilles Street

293 Gilles Street

295 Gilles Street

296-300 Gilles Street

305-307 Gilles Street

394 Gilles Street

404 Gilles Street

420-422 Gilles Street

424-428 Gilles Street

430-438 Gilles Street

247-249 Gouger Street

24-26 Halifax Street

105-109 Halifax Street

166 Halifax Street

168-170 Halifax Street

187 Halifax Street

222 Halifax Street

224 Halifax Street

226 Halifax Street

234 Halifax Street

236 Halifax Street

238 Halifax Street

246 Halifax Street

293-295 Halifax Street

301-303 Halifax Street

305 Halifax Street

307 Halifax Street

341-343 Halifax Street

347-349 Halifax Street

368-370 Halifax Street

372 Halifax Street

374 Halifax Street

18-20 Halifax Street

13 Hamilton Place

17A Hamilton Place

19 Hamilton Place

29 Harriett Street

31 Harriett Street

15 Hume Street

17 Hume Street

11-13 Hurtle Square

174A Hutt Street

176 Hutt Street

198 Hutt Street

214-220 Hutt Street

223 Hutt Street

241-249 Hutt Street

11-13 Kate Court

12A Kate Court

17-19 Little Gilbert Street

14 Little Sturt Street

11 Marion Street

17 Marion Street

14-16 McLaren Street

34-36 McLaren Street

67 McLaren Street

442 Pulteney Street

444-446 Pulteney Street

448-450 Pulteney Street

450 Pulteney Street

452-454 Pulteney Street

30-32 Sanders Place

103-105 South Terrace

178 South Terrace

248-249 South Terrace

250 South Terrace

327-330 South Terrace

338-339 South Terrace

341-364 South Terrace

344-345 South Terrace

346-348 South Terrace

26-28 St John Street

16 St Lukes Place

82 Sturt Street

84 Sturt Street

86 Sturt Street

88-90 Sturt Street

91-99 Sturt Street

154 Sturt Street

160 Sturt Street

185 Sturt Street

187 Sturt Street

213-215 Sturt Street

217 Sturt Street

247-249 Sturt Street

51 Symonds Place

18 Tomsey Street

26-28 Tomsey Street

30 Tomsey Street

321-325 Wakefield Street

27 Wakeham Street

29 Wakeham Street

12 Weil Street

5 Whitmore Square

7 Whitmore Square

9 Whitmore Square

45-47 Whitmore Square

57 Whitmore Square

59 Whitmore Square

93 Wright Street

95 Wright Street

113 Wright Street

182 Wright Street

217A Wright Street

220 Wright Street

222 Wright Street

291-293 Wright Street

295 Wright Street

[Will]

After reading the article in the Advertiser regarding the list of buildings proposed for heritage protection and the outrage that it has created in the pro-development circles, I was expecting to find many questionable decisions.

Hence I went on Google maps to find these buildings, and although I have only done streets A-D from the list, my reaction is "why aren't these buildings already heritage listed?" I think if people actually bothered to look up these buildings they would generally agree with the ACC.

From the buildings I've had a look at on Google maps, so far only 2 I find a bit questionable to be on the list:

26 Coromandel Place:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?utm_camp ... gle%20maps

106-108 Currie Street:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?utm_camp ... gle%20maps


Also, on the lsit there are buildings which have already been demolished:

15-17 Daly Street:

http://maps.google.com.au/maps?utm_camp ... gle%20maps


I think the pro-development lobby is approaching this matter from completely the wrong angle. Heritage is not the enemy, rather character is. Heritage listing these buildings will not stop progress. Instead what will stop progress if the ACC imposes the character forcefield around these buildings. Instead, I think the pro-development lobby should be campaigning against character as opposed to these individual buildings.

[Will]

One more thing, I forgot to mention. As I was looking at the addresses listed I noticed that some of them correspond to buildings which have already been earmarked for development, such as:

82 Flinders Street

74-80 North Terrace

139-140 North Terrace

(there are probabaly others)

These buildings should be removed from the list. It is fair enough to list buildings for which developers have not already spent thousands of dollars in preparing plans and then going through the lengthy development approval process. However I think it is unfair to now tell developers that they cant proceed because of heritage listing.

Keeping these buildings in the lsit sends out a very anti-development message.

The best way forward is for each individual building to be assessed individually by the state government.

[Omicron]

Choosing addresses at random shows that most are quite reasonable inclusions. Beware using Google Earth as absolute gospel when it comes to exact addresses, mind. Street view and map view don't often agree, and I'm temporarily awarding the benefit of the doubt to the ACCr.s who have access to titles and actual boundaries and whatnot.

[AtD]

I support Heritage lists and congratulate the ACC. However, an empty heritage building is not a desirable outcome. I hope the regulations are flexible enough to allow occupation of these buildings to be commercially viable.

[Omicron]

I support Heritage lists and congratulate the ACC. However, an empty heritage building is not a desirable outcome. I hope the regulations are flexible enough to allow occupation of these buildings to be commercially viable.

Bless you and your optimism.

[Wayno]

Apparently the list of additional heritage buildings will remain secret for a while longer - Paul Holloway is reviewing, including 300+ more listings highlighted by Clr Sandy Wilkinson ==> http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/pdfi ... places.pdf

Wasn't demolishing the Arturo Taverna building approved for the 22 Currie St Wave building?

From AdelaideNow

UP to 431 properties in Adelaide's CBD - including the Crazy Horse in Hindley St - have been placed on a secret list that recommends local heritage protection.

The list has been prepared by Adelaide City Council, which is pushing for a 50 per cent increase in the number of heritage-listed properties in the CBD to prevent developers from knocking down ageing buildings of interest.

Owners are being kept in the dark over the plans, with Planning Minister Paul Holloway and the city council refusing to reveal which properties are being considered until a final list is released for public consultation next year. There are fears that revealing them could precipitate a flood of demolition applications.

The Sunday Mail has obtained a separate list of 303 properties that city councillor and private heritage consultant Sandy Wilkinson have recommended be given heritage protection. They include:

THE Crazy Horse strip club, Hindley St.
ADELAIDE Symphony Orchestra's headquarters, also in Hindley St.
THE new House of Chow building, Hutt St.
THE Arturo Taverna building, Currie St.

Mr Wilkinson's list had been kept secret since it was first presented at a city council meeting in May. Its public release was recently ordered by State Ombudsman Richard Bingham after a complaint by Property Council SA executive director Nathan Paine.

The city council had refused Mr Paine's Freedom of Information application for a copy of Cr Wilkinson's research on the grounds it would affect market values of properties and prompt owners to "unnecessarily demolish buildings".

Neither the council nor Mr Wilkinson would confirm if any of his recommended buildings made it on to the council's final list of 431 properties.

One of those identified by Cr Wilkinson as having heritage significance is Julietta Lucidi's 1880 stone-fronted cottage, in Power St. It was among a number of city houses recommended for local heritage status in 1995, but was never listed after Mrs Lucidi's late husband Regino objected.

With the help of her daughter Linda, the 84-year-old has restored the interior of the house she bought in 1959 and has plans to renovate its weathered exterior. "We do see the benefit of local heritage register, but the council needs to give and take a bit, and not be so restrictive as to what you can do," Linda, 49, said.

"While we are still here and mum is alive, all this is staying the way it is; we're not going to demolish it." There are already 847 state and locally heritage-listed properties in the CBD. Owners of local heritage places must obtain council approval before making any alterations to their buildings, and these must not detract from the heritage value and character.

Mr Paine said a significant increase to the number of heritage buildings in inner-Adelaide could force development out of the city. "We would start to land-lock development in the CBD," he said.

"And the issue is not just about the properties that are listed, it's the fact that planning restrictions will apply to properties that are next to those that are listed. What we will end up doing is preserving Adelaide in aspic - we might as well hang up a 'closed for business' sign."

But Cr Wilkinson said a greater level of protection was needed for the city's heritage.

"The reality is that particularly in the commercial areas, not much of the city is actually protected at all," he said. "There are only about six heritage buildings in the whole of Rundle Mall and in Rundle St east, it's a terrible situation."

Lord Mayor Michael Harbison said the properties up for local heritage status remained "confidential".

The final decision on which properties should be listed rests with Mr Holloway.

The minister wrote to Mr Harbison on Wednesday advising he wanted further investigation into the "heritage significance" of the council's preferred heritage properties before releasing them for public consultation.

[Prince George]

From AdelaideNow

UP to 431 properties in Adelaide's CBD - including the Crazy Horse in Hindley St - have been placed on a secret list that recommends local heritage protection.

Oh, please tell me that the Cross Keys is on the list too

[Wayno]

Oh, please tell me that the Cross Keys is on the list too

you mean the tavern at Cavan?

[PropertyozSA]

To provide a bit of an update, I am reliably informed that the Government has made a decision on the two Adelaide City Council Heritage DPAs and there should be something in the media over the next couple of days about the decision.

Cheers

Nathan

[Wayno]

To provide a bit of an update, I am reliably informed that the Government has made a decision on the two Adelaide City Council Heritage DPAs and there should be something in the media over the next couple of days about the decision.

Nathan, thanks for the heads-up. Fingers crossed for a balanced outcome...

[Wayno]

article below as posted by iTouch(myself) in duplicate thread. Personally i'm confident that Paul Holloway will bring about a reasonable balance here. Out of the 431 proposed listings, it appears only 64 have passed unchallenged.

ADELAIDE'S "resurgence" would be threatened and development blocked if the city council's list of buildings earmarked for heritage status was approved, the State Government says.

Urban Development and Planning Minister Paul Holloway has written to Lord Mayor Michael Harbison warning heritage status is unlikely to be granted for a "wish list" of 431 residential and commercial buildings.

The secret list was compiled by the council over a six-month period without the knowledge of property owners and submitted to the Government for approval.

Mr Holloway has agreed to the listing of 64 residential sites in the city's southeast and southwest corner and asked the council for more detail on 116 others through the city's south and eastern fringe.

A list of 251 properties in the main business district will be sent to the independent Development Planning and Advisory Committee to decide if ACC "should be invited to reconsider" their listing.

On Tuesday, The Advertiser revealed the Government has increased growth targets for the city and plans to create 50,000 extra jobs and have 27,000 new residents in the city in the next three decades.

Mr Holloway yesterday said heritage listing must not be to stop expansion of the city.

"We want to encourage a resurgence in our capital that increases the amount of residential accommodation in the heart of the city in a way that activates and increases the appeal of the parklands," he said.

"While I am sympathetic to the need to remedy inconsistencies in the current heritage listings for the city's southeast and southwest, this needs to be done in a way that aligns with the strategic direction for the capital."

Property Council of Australia SA executive director Nathan Paine said the Government's approach was "balanced and sensible".

"We believe strongly in protecting Adelaide's soul, its mojo, and a lot of that comes from the character of our historic buildings," he said.

"We have always argued that heritage can be retained without preserving the city in aspic."

Lord Mayor Michael Harbison said the council "welcomes the minister's letter and "will respond accordingly" in the New Year.

[stumpjumper]

"We have always argued that heritage can be retained without preserving the city in aspic."

I'd like to discuss that point with Nathan Paine. In particular, where is the line drawn between what we 'save' and what we redevelop?

How much new development can happen in Adelaide before it loses a Unique Selling Point, if you like - a major Point Of Difference which induces people to effectively an extra 1000kms across the desert to get here from the more popular east?

It's not as if we're replacing our older buildings with architectural masterpieces, either. Too often expensively built older buildings are replaced with 'max net lettable floor area at cheapest cost' new strucutres

I might be better to take a lead from Paris, and allow 4-5 stories across the whole city. This would save many of the older buildings from demolition, and make it cheaper to build new. Good quality low rise structures could replace existing buildings without loss of our 'feel'.

On the other hand, if you want dark canyons of steel and glass, go ahead. But the triple bottom line cost will be excessive and the end result not worth it to anyone but the developers who after all usually live on Sydney Harbour where strict heritage legislation protects their views.