News & Discussion: Adelaide Airport & Airlines

[Splashmo]

Even if they are past the curfew, fancy some bureaucrat in Canberra denying them permission to land. 180 passengers back towards Sydney because of a few minutes. What a joke.

[bm7500]

Sydney has a curfew too. You can't use that as a blanket excuse for anything wrong with Adelaide.

It sounds like its an administration problem. Perhaps rather than a blanket ban there should simply be a fine per minute after curfew. It could be based on brackets so an aircraft that is just five minutes late gets a slap on the wrist while an aircraft that is over an hour late is better off diverting.

Its not a blanket excuse at all. I have stated previously on this forum that the current antiquated curfew arrangments at Adelaide Airport are a major impediment to international airlines flying here. fact.

The curfew is not an issue for Sydney because of the huge amount of passengers that transit that airport, this means that that airlines are happy to compromise with departure/arrival times because the 'passenger prize' is so big for them. The lack of passenger numbers and inflexible curfew arrangements here make Adelaide a 'risky' business case for international airlines.

As for it being an 'administration problem', thats not the case at all. The (Federal) legislation that governs the curfew at Adelaide is simply strictly enforced. The 'brackets' that you mention are called 'Shoulder periods', Adelaide's curfew is documented in such a way that there are actually no real shoulder periods specified that can be effectively used for the arrival or departure of commercial flights and as such permission is almost always denied unless for a medical or tech issue.

The simple fact is that the current curfew arrangements need to be reviewed and IMHO a real shoulder period needs to be introduced to allow some common sense flexibility in the system at the very least.

[Wayno]

37+% of people responding to the AdelaideNow survey want the curfew extended. 50% want it dumped completely. Based on ~2000 responses.

[AtD]

65% voted for an end to fuel excise and 103% voted for "Fix it pat."

[Hooligan]

82% voted for no fat chicks

[Shuz]

17% said they dreamed in high-definition.

[Vee]

Even if they are past the curfew, fancy some bureaucrat in Canberra denying them permission to land. 180 passengers back towards Sydney because of a few minutes. What a joke.

Joke on us!
Pity the poor passengers who had their journey interrupted when the plane was diverted at the last minute.
Ohhh, the inconvenience, the cost and the damage to the reputation of our state!!!
The plane was already descending when the pilots were denied permission to land.
Bureaucratic lack of commonsense.

This ridiculous and embarrassing case should be the catalyst for change. The curfew is an anachronism - leftover from a different era.
Just think of all the changes that have occurred during this time.
Planes are much quieter and double glazing and insulation can reduce aircraft noise. Social conditions and employment patterns have changed.

Imagine if we still had 6 o' clock closing (pubs) and no late night or Sunday shopping?
South Australia and Adelaide need more visitors and tourists and the airport needs to operate over a longer time period.
The curfew needs to be lifted or at least extended to/past midnight.

[muzzamo]

I would love for them to remove the curfew completely.
We would see a STACK more international flights coming through Adelaide, because by offering the airlines more choice they can slot Adelaide in at the end of another destination. Think Tokyo->Brisbane->Adelaide or Phuket->Singapore->Adelaide, that sorta thing. We would all have more choices and cheaper airfares to elsewhere in the world.

[skyliner]

this curfew was what was blamed for my last flight to Adelaide being grounded - dust storm here - but a plane left for Adelaide only 10 minutes before ours. We were on the line moving into the plane when it was cancelled. We were to leave at 8.00PM and would have got across by 11.00PM. What a menace!

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE

[bm7500]

Here is one of the better written articles i have read on adelaidenow of late, and suprise suprise its not written by an Advertiser journalist...

A passenger's view of being turned away

Good afternoon, I was a passenger on QF 785 last night, which was diverted due to the Adelaide Airport curfew.

I actually arrived at Sydney Airport at 2.00pm yesterday hoping to convert my ticket to an earlier flight as I had concluded my business in Sydney ahead of schedule.

Due to ticketing restrictions I was unable to do this.

Hence I sat in the terminal all afternoon watching:

- The massive electrical storm roll over the Sydney terminal

- The halt to airport tarmac operations for (quite correct) safety reasons for over an hour

- The unfolding chaos which followed as passengers and flights backed up, and then flights were cancelled.

- The monumental efforts which were made by (at least) Qantas to shift the backlog of flights once the storm had passed.


Prophetically I had swapped several text messages with my partner in Adelaide in the early evening, speculating upon the possible effect of the 11.00pm Adelaide Airport curfew upon my chances of flying at all last night.


QF785 was due to depart Sydney at 845pm (Syd) and arrive at 10.25pm (Adl).

I sat close to the boarding gate while we all waited to board at a rescheduled boarding time of 8.35pm.

It was apparent from conversations between the gate staff that:

- The storms had caused many flight crews to be diverted away from Sydney or to arrive very late.

- Additional delays were encountered in loading the passengers due to those staffing problems.

* I was later told by one of the cabin crew that he had been on “airport standby”, and that a trip to Adelaide late at night had come as something of a surprise.

* I have only the highest praise for all of the crew who never lost their customer service focus for a minute throughout this entire episode.

- The Captain had not been provided with a flight plan even by 9.00pm, despite the fact that the plane should have been in the air by then.

* I overheard the phone call he made from the boarding gate chasing the flight plan.

* He did not seem to be receiving a lot of ready assistance from whoever he was speaking to, despite his best efforts.

We finally boarded the aircraft at approx 9.08pm.


The inevitable passenger dithering and diddling-around when locating seats and storing luggage didn’t help speed things up, but we were pretty much ready to go by 9.25pm

We then sat motionless on the tarmac for at least another 15-20 minutes till taking off at approx 9.45pm (Syd) / 9.15 (Adl).

I can only assume that this was in waiting for some kind of clearance.

This left approx 1hr 45 min to get to Adelaide before 11.00pm


The pilot clearly pushed the plane to try and make the deadline.

We noticeably changed altitude several times, presumably to try and avoid the worst of what was still a very rough flight

I have done this Adl-Syd / Syd-Adl flight many times in the last 10 years, and this was easily the most turbulent trip I’ve had.


After the announcement of final descent and preparations for landing we were all looking forward to finally getting back on the ground when at the last minute we were advise by the Captain that “we had been refused permission to land by the authorities on the ground, and the aircraft was to be diverted to Canberra”. We were advised that the reason which had been given for this was that “we would have landed in Adelaide 1 to 2 minutes after the 11.00 pm curfew had we continued to land at Adelaide.”


There was also a promise of further information as it came to hand and a profuse apology from the Captain.

Some passengers were clearly distressed, but to the credit of the Customer Service skills of the cabin crew, everyone remained pretty calm.


One mother on the plane had an infant which appeared to be of less than 6 months age.

The baby became increasingly distressed throughout the evening.

By the time we were getting off the plane in Canberra at approx 1.00am (Canberra time) the infant was screaming inconsolably.


Another 45 minutes in the Canberra terminal while Qantas ground staff did their best to arrange transport and accommodation for the night.

They handed us details of our flight from Canberra this morning at 8.55am plus taxi vouchers to cover the trip to the accom and then back to the airport this morning.

Breakfast, and phone calls as required were also provided by Qantas.


Even the Canberra taxi drivers chipped in to stay on duty or return from knocking-off for the day to try and help shift the 170 stranded passengers.

My taxi driver had received a phone call on his way home from work, and came back on duty to pitch-in.

I was told that most of the drivers did 2-3 runs to and from the airport for us.


Hotel staff also did an excellent job to get us squared away with somewhere to (briefly) sleep.

I finally checked in to my room at 2.15am.

I was awake at 6.45, whisked back to the Canberra airport by 8.00, boarded the aircraft by 8.35, and in the air on time at 8.55.


It should be noted that an aircraft had to come from somewhere (I know not where) to transport us from Canberra to Adelaide.

Our original aircraft from the night before had apparently been required for an early flight from Adelaide to Sydney first thing this morning.

So I can only assume it left Canberra to land at Adelaide at 6.00am for that purpose.

Either way the Adelaide to Sydney flight would still have been delayed I would guess.


The extra crew to man our flight from Canberra to Adelaide this morning also had to be shipped in from somewhere.

Apparently they had been drawn from all over the countryside.

And again, not once did they put anything but the needs of their passengers first.


My partner who had patiently waited for the late flight at Adelaide terminal last night, left empty-handed and was unable to return to pick me up this morning due to work commitments.

Many other people went away similarly empty-handed last night.

Qantas again came to the party and happily provided a taxi to get me home.


I heard at the airport that it was CASA who had refuse permission for the flight to land last night.

However when I called the airport management to enquire further I was provided with the same information that has been given by the ‘tiser … that the federal department of infrastructure … et.al was to blame.


I understand the reasons why a curfew is required.

I don’t disagree with the existence of the curfew.


I do however disagree with the means by which it is enforced.

A blanket $110,000 fine is ludicrous.

No business which is subject to the vagaries of weather, technical failures, and the stupidity of its own customers (the general public) should be held accountable in this kind of “all or nothing” way by a petty-minded beurocracy that is only interested in applying the letter of the law, while disregarding the spirit of it.

Perhaps some kind of SENSIBLE amendment should be applied to the law covering the Adelaide curfew so that planes landing:

- After 11.00pm attract

* an immediate fine of $5,000, plus

* an additional fine of $2,000 for every minute between 11.00pm and the actual time of landing, up till 11.15pm

- After 11.15pm attract

* The potential maximum fine.

Surely this kind of arrangement would satisfy the need to “give the curfew teeth” while also providing some scope to minimise the significant negative impacts upon passengers and airline staff.


This petty minded decision, wrangling over 2 minutes has flowed on to disrupt the lives, productivity, and schedules of:

- At least 170 passengers,

- probably as many greeters and many more extended family members,

- employers who have missed today the attendance of the delayed passengers who were employed by them,

- a late morning service (somewhere),

- two flight crews, and

- countless ground staff.


Did anyone give any consideration to the safety of the passengers whose crew were placed under extraordinary stress and probably experienced heightened fatigue as a result of this decision to deny permission to land?

Its about time some common-sense was introduced into this issue.


I would again re-iterate my praise for the Qantas staff and for the assistance they gave to us, the passengers.

I generally view the old “customer is always right” maxim as bunkum which has been twisted by an exploitative public to extort unreasonable requirements from business.

However Qantas put their customers first in this episode in a very real, constant, and dignified way.

Qantas 1 – Feds 0

Regards

Mark McGrath

[peas_and_corn]

I suppose the important lesson here is that 6 month old babies shouldn't be brought onto flights.

[Shuz]

Has there ever been a study into the effect that travelling onboard airplanes has on a baby's health? I'd imagine they'd be far more susceptible to to feeling turbulence, variation in altitude, cabin pressure variation, etc. If you consider the size of a baby, they don't exactly have a lot of "room" within themselves to absorb the shockwave effect of each of these things?

[muzzamo]

That story really puts into perspective why tiger flights are so cheap - in that situation tiger would give you a big fat 0.

[bm7500]

Computer failure causes Qantas check-in delays
QANTAS check-ins across the country were thrown into chaos last night, after the system went into meltdown.

The Amadeus IT program used by Qantas to check in passengers crashed about 4.30pm, Adelaide time, across all Australian airports. It was restored about 7pm

A Qantas spokeswoman said Amadeus was working to identify and correct the problem, but staff had been forced to resort to manual procedures when checking in passengers. "Any delays to flights are because it takes longer to check-in manually," she said.

"The issue is with Amadeus and all airline networks that use this program will be affected in some way and we apologise for any inconvenience caused.

At Adelaide Airport, some passengers on incoming flights reported departure delays of up to an hour.

But the system failure did not appear to be seriously affecting local schedules.

All Qantas flights across the country were affected, along with another 485 airlines across the world.

Major airlines such as British Airways, Air France, South African Airways, Thai Airways, Lufthansa and United Airlines were all affected in the global check-in chaos.

Even passengers who had checked in online were affected, because all baggage had to be manually processed at the desk.

Traveller Donna Webb, 50, from Perth, waited for more than an hour to check in her luggage at Melbourne Airport.

She said no information was given to the hundreds of passengers flooding the departures hall about the possibility of delays.

"It's chaotic," she said.

Passengers in Brisbane experienced delays of up to an hour for check in, however Adelaide passengers waiting to fly to Darwin said there were no delays.
German Rudi Janz flew from Brisbane to Adelaide and he said there were "many people" waiting to check in at Brisbane airport.

"The check in was delayed because the computers were down, there were many people and now one around was saying what to do," Mr Janz said.

Phil Larkin was returning from a holiday in Brisbane with his family including daughter Kate, 4-months-old.

"It was unpleasant but these things happen and Kate was pretty good," Mr Larkin said.

www.adelaidenow.com.au

[Omicron]

A useful insight from Mr. McGrath, and kudos to Qantas for their efforts. Yet another example of the inefficiencies of government in the face of the willingness of private enterprise to do right by its paying customers.

The best line of them all:

I generally view the old “customer is always right” maxim as bunkum which has been twisted by an exploitative public to extort unreasonable requirements from business

What a good man this is!