[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

[Ben]

Victoria Square (potentially the greatest civic space in Australia - it is FIFTH biggest public square by area in the world!)

That didn't ring true to me - and a quick check on Wikipedia backs me up. According to the List of city squares by size, Victoria Square (58,000 m2) is at most the 32nd biggest public square, and it will probably move further down the list, as the list gets longer.

Maybe he meant in Australia?

[ChrisRT]

Victoria Square (potentially the greatest civic space in Australia - it is FIFTH biggest public square by area in the world!)

That didn't ring true to me - and a quick check on Wikipedia backs me up. According to the List of city squares by size, Victoria Square (58,000 m2) is at most the 32nd biggest public square, and it will probably move further down the list, as the list gets longer.

Maybe he meant in Australia?

The only other square in Australia I can think of is Federation square in Melbourne, and that isn't very big.

I think Sydney has had many proposals to knock down some buildings to create a square but nothing has ever eventuated to date.

[ralmin]

The only other square in Australia I can think of is Federation square in Melbourne, and that isn't very big.

I think Sydney has had many proposals to knock down some buildings to create a square but nothing has ever eventuated to date.

I think Victoria Square is the biggest in Australia at 58,000 m2. Other large ones include Federation Square at around 38,000 m2. Smaller again is Russell Square in Perth at around 27,000 m2. The remaining squares in Adelaide (Light, Hindmarsh, Hurtle, Whitmore and Wellington) are each around that size too.

[rhino]

Surprised to see Red Square so far down that list - it looks HUGE.

[SRW]

I have it on good authority that the design for VSQ is complete. Lots of input from Laura Lee (Thinker In Residence program) and various others groups (i'm not sure who). It's now awaiting State Govt approval/sign-off. Nothing can be released for public consumption til Rann gives the nod.

The last I heard was that a design keeping Victoria Square dissected by Wakefield Street was being settled upon.

I hope with all hope that they dumped that plan. I demand, hope that we all demand, nothing less than the reunification of the Square.

[skyliner]

i guess we will all just have to wait and see. SRW - you like many of us want the reunification of the square - at least to a greater degree than now. ( minus Wakefield St crossover to Grote would be excellent).

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE

[rubegoldbergdevice]

That didn't ring true to me - and a quick check on Wikipedia backs me up. According to the List of city squares by size, Victoria Square (58,000 m2) is at most the 32nd biggest public square, and it will probably move further down the list, as the list gets longer.

Yep sorry, my bad! How embarrassing for me I got that info from an old architect mate of mine a whiles back, but he's been living in the UK for a long, long time now. Teach me not to google. Still 32nd ain't too bad and it is a very big space when it's whole (like during that 2002 Adelaide Festival experience that seemed to originally reignite the debate. Good times!).

What's wrong with Rundle mall? There is very limited scope with what you could do to improve Rundle mall but almost limitless scope for what could be done to improve Vic square.

I completely agree that Vic Sq is almost limitless in scope but this is my point. The amount that has been stated is being spent on redeveloping the square would, as you imply, potentially make Rundle Mall awesome, but strongly limits the scope of what can be done with Vic Sq. I disagree that there is very limited scope to improve something like the Mall; it is after all, another type of public space and should be vibrant and attractive. Indeed it's the closest thing to the old concept of the town market square that we have. What's wrong with Rundle Mall is that it's not a nice place to be these days. But that's for another thread.

Like I say, a real purpose or purposes for Vic Sq need to be identified (maybe starting from the idea that it is something of a transport hub), rather than just "filling an empty space", and a budget of at the very least double what's been proposed put into it, I think. Federation Sq is really just a complex of buildings housing some great stuff, with an expansive and delightfully paved split-level front courtyard, and I'm pretty sure it's called Federation Sq partly because they couldn't call it the Sydney Opera House. What Adelaide has is a real, traditional kind of central city square - unique in Australia, at least to the major cities - and it deserves weighty consideration and investment. Maybe even some Federal investment. It was the first place the Aboriginal flag was ever flown! (I did check that one )

[ChrisRT]

Not to get too side-tracked, but the only deficiency I see with RM is it could do with a bit more seating and shade. But apart from that, it's pretty much exactly the same as every other pedestrian mall in every major city around Australia. Seen one, seen them all. But only Adelaide has the largest public square in Australia dead-set in the heart of the city. We should be improving and celebrating what is special and unique about Adelaide, like Vic square, not trying to imitate other cities with fancy shopping precincts. We will never have Sydney's harbor, Melbourne's alleys and unique shops or Brisbane's beaches but we have the squares and the parklands and, I think, they're worth celebrating more than our mall.

[AtD]

^^ Brisbane is the only city that has anything that could compare with Rundle Mall. Sydney's and Melbourne's pedestrian malls are tiny in comparison.

[Prince George]

^^ Brisbane is the only city that has anything that could compare with Rundle Mall. Sydney's and Melbourne's pedestrian malls are tiny in comparison.

Not even Bourke St Mall, or the Swanston St Walk?

[AG]

^^ Brisbane is the only city that has anything that could compare with Rundle Mall. Sydney's and Melbourne's pedestrian malls are tiny in comparison.

Not even Bourke St Mall, or the Swanston St Walk?

Bourke Street Mall is a lot shorter than Rundle Mall and isn't as pedestrian-friendly as it could be with trams running through it. Swanston Street Walk isn't truly a mall, it's more of a restricted thoroughfare although it's a huge improvement on when it was a regular road carrying much more traffic.

[ChrisRT]

So sounds like we're already winning the 'battle of the malls'.

Now we should go for a trifecta - best mall, best square and best stadium

[pushbutton]

Well I've lived in Adelaide for 20 years now and heard every kind of plan you could imagine for Victoria Square. Some fairly good ones and some downright terrible ones.

I wonder if we'll still be discussing proposals for Victoria Square in another 20 years from now?

[ChrisRT]

I think something is actually going to happen this time, since the North Terrace project is almost (finally!) complete. I'm certain the final proposal wont please everyone and some people will be highly critical of it (as people in Adelaide always are), but it has to be better than what we have now.

The tram extension has reconnected it with the commercial and retail heart of the city. Now people just need better reasons to want to go there.

[Wayno]

I think something is actually going to happen this time, since the North Terrace project is almost (finally!) complete. I'm certain the final proposal wont please everyone and some people will be highly critical of it (as people in Adelaide always are), but it has to be better than what we have now.

The tram extension has reconnected it with the commercial and retail heart of the city. Now people just need better reasons to want to go there.

yep agree 100% ChrisRT. There will be action, and the masses will be displeased no matter what.