News & Discussion: Roads & Traffic

[adam73837]

This message does not contain too few characters.

[fasterthanlids]

adam73837, you cant really believe that Mike Rann sits at home and plans by himself all of Adelaide's transport projects.

No I don't, but what I do believe at this point in time is that the way in which they are rolling out these underpasses over an extended period of time (and not to mention the rushed timing of the tramline extension) is most definitely the work of him and his "spin doctors".

There is a large govt department called DTEI that employs hundreds of people that are expertised in the area of transport planning and infrastructure costings,

Yes, I am aware of DTEI, as one of my mates' dad works there as did my uncle who has since moved to a different company.

You argument needs more smileys.

[fabricator]

adam73837, you cant really believe that Mike Rann sits at home and plans by himself all of Adelaide's transport projects.

No I don't, but what I do believe at this point in time is that the way in which they are rolling out these underpasses over an extended period of time (and not to mention the rushed timing of the tramline extension) is most definitely the work of him and his "spin doctors".

So what you're saying is we need to mess with the spin doctors, say by making their TV play nothing but railway themed tv shows and movies for some odd reason.

That SuperWay is sure going to be one ugly mess during construction. I'm sure the extra jobs created in cement/concrete companies will be promoted by said spin doctors.

[camaro68]

What a crock of ( ) spend $900 Million to save 2 mins on a three lane stretch of road that has a speed limit of 70 km/hr!!!

What about the rest of south road, i ask for the 10 Trillionth time!!!

Dare we make any radicall changes to this state that might put us into the 19th century!!!

[Nort]

What a crock of ( ) spend $900 Million to save 2 mins on a three lane stretch of road that has a speed limit of 70 km/hr!!!

What about the rest of south road, i ask for the 10 Trillionth time!!!

Dare we make any radicall changes to this state that might put us into the 19th century!!!

A radical change is planning ahead for future needs rather than making things slightly more convenient now.

Right now South Road can be a nightmare drive for commuters, however it is traversable. This road is being constructed based on the forecast of its future need due to the expansion of local industry and improved connection to the northern fringes of Adelaide. That section of South Road runs well now, but don't forget that if the Northern Connector gets built it will essentially mean the Sturt Highway connecting directly on to South Road. Forecasts of future traffic say that expansion of South Road will be needed there, so it makes sense to do the work now before it is needed.

Remember all the difficulties and complaints regarding the Gallipoli Underpass? That's what happens when you try to upgrade an intersection once it is already clogged up. Far better to get in early and avoid the problems entirely, which also makes the upgrades cheaper in the long term.

The state government does love projects that get it warm fuzzy feelings from voters, so that's why I am quite impressed they decided to postpone the Port Road/South Road underpass when the Federal government offered to add money to do this first instead. It's a rare instance of putting the long term good ahead of short term gain with voters.

[camaro68]

Slightly more convenient????

Are you kidding me, travel from cnr of Sturt and south road to cnr or regency and south road at 8 a.m. and then use the word slighty.

Not sure what planet you're on my friend but that needs to be fixed now, what do you think is going to happen with the trucks when they reach the south and regency road intersection???

Chaos that's what, why spend $900m when you can spend double that and improved 10 times as much road.

This state has and always will have no strategies for future expansion, drive over the border to Victoria, it’s an eye opener.

[AtD]

I dunno about that. The times I've been on Citylink it's made South Road look free flowing. It's not even that old.

[drsmith]

If all goes according to plan Perth will see a $700m upgrade to the road network around the airport.

Tonkin Highway will be upgraded to a 6-lane freeway from Great Eastern Highway to Roe Highway and freeway to freeway interchanges built where Tonkin highway intersects with Leach Highway and Roe Highway. With Leach Highway extended into the airport to service a planned combined international/domestic terminal at the current international terminal both Leach Highway and Roe Highway interchanges will consist of two loop ramps and two overhead ramps each (essentially cloverstacks). Ramps will be displaced to minimise height but the bridgework will still be a spectacular sight upon construction if it all goes ahead.

[Aidan]

I dunno about that. The times I've been on Citylink it's made South Road look free flowing. It's not even that old.

I seem to recall Citylink is privately owned and operated - so if the demand for it is that high, how come the owners haven't put the toll rates up?

[ChrisRT]

I dunno about that. The times I've been on Citylink it's made South Road look free flowing. It's not even that old.

I seem to recall Citylink is privately owned and operated - so if the demand for it is that high, how come the owners haven't put the toll rates up?

I would guess the agreements with the state government don't allow them to. Besides you can't really take AtD's observations as conclusive evidence of the ongoing level of congestion on the road. To do that you have to do some hard research which, fortunately for us, John Odgers of RMIT’s School of Management already has. According to this paper "average travel speeds in inner Melbourne post the opening of City Link have reduced in both the morning and evening peaks" (abstract, para 2).

[DM8]

I dunno about that. The times I've been on Citylink it's made South Road look free flowing. It's not even that old.

I beg to differ. I worked in Melbourne for a while a couple of years back, frequently travelling from Clayton to Laverton North in peak hour taking the M1 the entire distance. South Road is absolute crap in comparison. During my last trip to Melbourne a couple of weeks back, I noticed even the sections of the Western Ring Road that are 2 lanes in each direction flow better in peak (and that's with roadworks!). I think a lot of it has to do with driver attitude also - with the exception of taxi drivers, I would have to say Melbourne motorists are far more courteous on the road than those in Adelaide.

I seem to recall Citylink is privately owned and operated - so if the demand for it is that high, how come the owners haven't put the toll rates up?

They do keep putting them up. They're great roads, but friggin expensive...
http://www.citylink.com.au/files/CityLi ... r_2010.pdf

[mattblack]

Slightly more convenient????

Are you kidding me, travel from cnr of Sturt and south road to cnr or regency and south road at 8 a.m. and then use the word slighty.

Not sure what planet you're on my friend but that needs to be fixed now, what do you think is going to happen with the trucks when they reach the south and regency road intersection???

Chaos that's what, why spend $900m when you can spend double that and improved 10 times as much road.

This state has and always will have no strategies for future expansion, drive over the border to Victoria, it’s an eye opener.

All this comparing Adelaide with Melbourne is really getting on my tits. Melbourne has 3x the population of Adelaide. Alot of the major highways are private built and thus have tolls. Yes, things get built quicker but hey your gonna pay for the privilage. Im guessing that they still have traffic issues. Perth, well they have (or had) a budget surplus in the billions, so dont compare what they are able to achieve in the same timeframe. If you want to compare a city in terms of population maybe look at Amsterdam, until you've sat in thier 10-15km bumper to bumper traffic jams, at peak hour, on highways that are 3-4 lanes each way (which Ive done many times) I wouldnt be jumping on my high horse too much about our slight traffic congestion.

Get some perspective.

[ChrisRT]

100% agree with mattblack. Melbourne also has completely different geography. They are not jammed into a relatively narrow slice of flat land between the hills and the sea so their planning problems are different to ours.

Comparing Adelaide to Melbourne is a complete waste of time. We can learn from their mistakes, but comparing our problems to theirs provides no insights or new knowledge.

[Nort]

Slightly more convenient????

Are you kidding me, travel from cnr of Sturt and south road to cnr or regency and south road at 8 a.m. and then use the word slighty.

Not sure what planet you're on my friend but that needs to be fixed now, what do you think is going to happen with the trucks when they reach the south and regency road intersection???

Chaos that's what, why spend $900m when you can spend double that and improved 10 times as much road.

This state has and always will have no strategies for future expansion, drive over the border to Victoria, it’s an eye opener.

You are the one who has no strategies for future expansion in this case. You would make your drive to/from work quicker now, in exchange for reducing the long term opportunities.

I hate driving along South Road in peak traffic as well (and I have to do it a fair bit) so pointing out how frustrating it can be doesn't help your case. I would love to see South Road made much smoother flowing however as you pointed out doing so requires the entire length to be fixed. So you and I are both in agreement that the long term plan for South Road involves making the entire length free flowing (I am doubtful this can ever actually happen, but its the goal at least) and that the benefits from any specific upgrades will be small until large stretches have most of the intersections upgraded.

With those things being agreed on by both of us, does it not make the most sense to then stagger the upgrades in a way that is cheapest, and therefore quickest (since the the more the upgrades cost the longer it will take to find money for them all)

Based on the money available, the plan was to sort out the Port Road/South Road intersection as that was judged as being the most gain for the funds currently available. The Federal Government then came in and based on the long term forecasts offered to chuck in more money so that this raised section of South Road can be built as it will have good long term economic benefits.

[camaro68]

I was also in Melbourne earlier this year and drove from the Airport to Langwarrin took me 65 mins to travel 80kms, with road works on the M1. That is like travelling from Mclaren Vale to Gawler, try doing that in an hour on a Sunday, let a lone in peak hour traffic.

If we agree that we should spend them money in portions would it not make sense to free up the congested portions of south road, not the free flowing end after Regency road????