[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

[skyliner]

Dead right Wayno! The whiners always are floating in the wings - so it's a matter of move on now - better to do something rather than nothing after all this time as well as the recognition that something needs to be done. Will be interesting to see if any of the plan carries ideas mentioned in this forum. Can't wait to see the plan.

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE

[monotonehell]

Dead right Wayno! The whiners always are floating in the wings - so it's a matter of move on now - better to do something rather than nothing after all this time as well as the recognition that something needs to be done. Will be interesting to see if any of the plan carries ideas mentioned in this forum. Can't wait to see the plan.

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE

It'll be my second design, the one I did in crayon. As opposed to the first one I made with a design program.

[skyliner]

What page was that on Mono - I want to have another look.

SA - STATE ON THE MOVE

[monotonehell]

What page was that on Mono - I want to have another look.

SA - STATE ON THE MOVE

This was the first idea I had way back when. I've since gone off the concept a bit because the tram is all the way over the traffic side of the square, it could work better with the tram on the central markets' side, but that would slash the pedestrian area in half;
http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... 429#p28389

And this was the second one which is cheaper! But more importantly builds on why Hindmarsh Sq works: pedestrian access between buildings and park;
http://www.sensational-adelaide.com/for ... 135#p42758

[ChrisRT]

These are my predictions for the final design:
- fountain to remain, but possibly moved
- maybe a small watercourse, in reference to the Murray
- all North-South traffic re-routed along the eastern side
- a wide pedestrian promenade along the western side with aboriginal motifs and designs embedded in the paving
- the Wakefield/Grote to connection to remain, but paved appying shared space principes
- solar lights to remain
- lots and lots of native shrubs and plants

I suspect the former tram stop area will remain as the main grassy 'event' area. Not sure what they will do with North-West quadrant though.

[skyliner]

That first one of yours is good mono - but with KWS partly raised over a partly lowered Wakefield - Grote St under KWS. This would get rid of the E - W street cutting VSQ and give grassed slopes eacxh side of KWS for outdoor theatre seating. All VERY interesting.

BTW - how much are they setting aside for this project?

SA - STATE ON THE MOVE

[Hindley Street Alley]

Regarding the new paved 'courtyard' area on Victoria Square (next to SA water and the church)... I wonder if there's any scope to do anything with this paved space, or if it's intended to only be empty all the time.

I noticed it today, and couldn't help but think that the potential of that space is going to waste, and in fact, wouldn't it be a great place for a cafe/bar... perhaps part indoor, but largely outdoor.. and it would still probably leave most of that courtyard empty.

I suppose these kind of ideas wouldn't have seemed possible only a few years ago, but I didn't immediately cower at the prospect and think of all the bad things that would happen... so perhaps the culture of the square really is already changing.

[rubegoldbergdevice]

That first one of yours is good mono - but with KWS partly raised over a partly lowered Wakefield - Grote St under KWS. This would get rid of the E - W street cutting VSQ and give grassed slopes eacxh side of KWS for outdoor theatre seating. All VERY interesting.

A lot of kowtowing to cars there. Adelaide needs to get out of that mindset. Everywhere else has and for a city of its size, it has no excuse.

BTW - how much are they setting aside for this project?

Not nearly enough.

[ChrisRT]

http://city-north-messenger.whereilive. ... ty-riders/

Bike hub plan for city riders

HELMET hair may eventually be a thing of the past for workers who bike it into town.

Bicycle SA and Adelaide City Council have been in talks about creating a dedicated bike hub in Victoria Square where cyclists can store their wheels, shower and change before heading to the office.

The council is considering the commuters’ centre as part of its multi-million Victoria Square overhaul, which aims to turn the site into a prominent public space with more major events, chill-out zones and food and wine-based activities.

If built, it would be based on Brisbane Council’s City2Cycle centre, a high-security bike hub complete with German-built cycle racks, repair shop, men’s and women’s showers and a laundry service.

Bicycle SA chief executive officer Christian Haag said a survey of almost a thousand cyclists by the association showed strong support for the idea.

Lord Mayor Michael Harbison said the council was “very keen” on the idea, although no formal plans had been drafted.

Here's a YouTube video of Brisbane's City2Cycle centre -

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yG_ck1XeNjM&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yG_ck1XeNjM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]

It's a cool concept but I'm of the view that improving cycling safety is more important than these sorts of things. After all the centre would only be useful to people who live within cycling distance of the city, so step 1 is ensuring those people can safely reach Victoria Square by bicycle in the mornings.

[Nathan]

It would improve safety indirectly. The more cyclists there are on the road, the more visible they are and the more motorists will be expecting to see them (and hopefully be more likely to drive to accommodate them). It wouldn't surprise me that some serious thought would be put into improving cycle routes feeding into Victoria Sq if this was to go ahead.

[ChrisRT]

That's a good point Nathan. It would also work really well with the Tours Down Under. Kinda like a permanent promotion for the TDU and a place for cyclists to meet before heading out on rides. Would also provide an opportunity to symbolically recognize the importance of cycling to Adelaide.

[omada]

ChrisRT: That's a good point Nathan. It would also work really well with the Tours Down Under. Kinda like a permanent promotion for the TDU and a place for cyclists to meet before heading out on rides. Would also provide an opportunity to symbolically recognize the importance of cycling to Adelaide.

Yes and let me reiterate your words "symbolically recognize", yes it will be merely a symbol, as Adelaide, and more importantly, the CBD, is still ruled by the car. Which pretty much gets down to how the Vic Square upgrade has the opportunity to address this issue.

[monotonehell]

A lot of kowtowing to cars there. Adelaide needs to get out of that mindset. Everywhere else has and for a city of its size, it has no excuse.

The problem is that KWS and Grote/Wakefield Streets are major routes in and out of the CBD (not only cars, they also carry a lot of PT). Any suggestion to close them in the past has led to a lot of grumbling from the local traders (as they always do). I looked at using other streets to divert the traffic away from the square but nothing was practical. I still think my second scheme is the best option, with the best outcome for pedestrian interaction with the space. Anything involving roads isolates the square from the surrounding buildings. Look at the difference between the Northern side of Hindmarsh square, compared with the Southern side, and all other squares that are isolated with roads at their margins. Squares need to abut buildings at their edges.

I agree with you in principle, but principle is a luxury in practice.

[Aidan]

ChrisRT: That's a good point Nathan. It would also work really well with the Tours Down Under. Kinda like a permanent promotion for the TDU and a place for cyclists to meet before heading out on rides. Would also provide an opportunity to symbolically recognize the importance of cycling to Adelaide.

Yes and let me reiterate your words "symbolically recognize", yes it will be merely a symbol, as Adelaide, and more importantly, the CBD, is still ruled by the car. Which pretty much gets down to how the Vic Square upgrade has the opportunity to address this issue.

It doesn't, unless it's part of something much bigger.

The main reason the CBD is still ruled by the car is because the public transport is inadequate. Trains don't come anywhere near the centre of the City, trams are overcrowded and there's only a single route, and buses are often unreliable and infrequent - and often slow and overcrowded as well!

When Victoria Square has a subway station, you can expect it to be well used. Until then, all you're doing is tinkering around with the edges.

[PeFe]

Honestly Aiden trains do come into "the city"......North Tce is the city....yes its not Rundle Mall but it is the CBD. The tram may be only one single line at the moment but it does show the good citizens of Adelaide that public transport can work quite well in a city that size. As for the buses....considering that Adelaide sprawls 100 km north-south with only 1.2 million people (making it around the 400th biggest city on planet earth) I dont think the buses do too bad...if you went to a similar sized city in the US for example (Oklahoma City?) with a similar population and density Adelaide comes out surprisingly well (stupid to compare to Europe or Asia where the densities are bigger)...and yes a Metro station underneath Victoria Square would be ideal in the future and something for Adelaide to work towards.