News & Discussion: Regional Transport

[fabricator]

With reference to two posts by "stonie" on this forum, which quote The Leader (barossa newspaper)
http://www.railsa.org/forums/viewtopic. ... &start=165


From the Herald 17/2/10

RAIL SUPPORT


"The two companies that currently manage and use the Gawler to Barossa railway have thrown there full support behind the introduction of a passenger service on the line.

Genesee and Wyoming Australia and Penrice Soda hold a commercial arrangements in place that has seen limestone hauled from penrice to Osbourne for many years. Both support development for this line, both for passenger and a potential container service to support the export wine industry.

Penrice is commited to rail as both a safe and economical viable option for its limestone hauage, which totals about 500,000 tones per annum. The companies put together a joint statment in response to recent speculation about future changes. (Page 12-Letters to the Editor)

"For the residents of the Barossa Valley, it is important to know that both penrice and GWA are commited to rail services in the longer term" the joint statment said.

"GWA and Penrice will both continue to work closely with the SA government to fully understand the timing and impact of any proprosed changes to the gauge of the Transadelaide network from Adelaide to Gawer, and its implications for the barossa valley services."

The department of transport plans to rebuild the adelaide to gawler line with gauge convertible concrete sleepers, making it possibe to first run broad gauge, then change it at a latter date.

Both GWA and Penrice understand when the Adelaide metropolitan lines are converted to standard gauge, then the line between Gawler and Angaston would also need to be converted by the state government to allow rail services between the barossa and adelaide continue.

There has been no announcment about the change on the Barossa Line, however the state liberal party believes the passenger service is worth investigating and included a proprosal in the recently-released policy document.

They support for other rail services, including passengers, from two key companies and the state liberal party stands out as completly opposite to the opinion of one Federal politiacion.

Nick Champion. the federal member for barker, does not belive a passenger service fits the barossa. Mr Champion belives a commuter rail service would inevitably bring pressure for urbanisation and subdivison.
"This would destroy the distinctive character and beauty of the barossa Valley area" He said.

From the Herald 17/2/10 - one comment posted

Letter to the Editors

Joint letter from GWA and Penrice

We write in response to Peter Hoye's letter (Rail Issues-Herald Febuary 3)

Penrice Soda and GWA have had a commercial agreement in place for the haulage of of limestone from Penrices Angaston Mine to Osbourne for many years. Penrice is commited to rail as both a safe and economical viable option for its limestone hauage, which totals about 500,000 tones per annum.

GWA owns the rail system from angaston to north gawler and is commited to continue to operate this line in its current gauge to meet the transport needs of Penrice and any potential customers.

Both GWA and Penrice understand when the Adelaide metropolitan lines are converted to standard gauge, then the line between Gawler and Angaston would also need to be converted to standerd gauge by the state government to continue rail services between the Barossa Valley and adelaide.

GWA and Penrice will both continue to work closely with the SA government to fully understand the timing and impact of any proprosed changes to the gauge of the Transadelaide network from Adelaide to Gawer, and its implications for the barossa valley services.

At this point we are not expecting any change to rail gauges for the foreseible future. For the residents of the barossa vally , it is important to know that both GWA and penrice are commited to rail services in the longer term.

We also belive that a base volume of limestone hauled from angaston to adelaide could form the foundation of a futher daily intermodal container service from the barossa valley with the potential to service the wine industry and region.

Both Penrice and GWA also support the development of passenger services to the baroosa valley to service the community.

Paul Hollitt
Property and Access maneger
GWA Limited

Andrew Cannon
General Manger- Supply Chain
Penrice Soda Holding

The sticking point here, is GWA want the state government to pay for the gauge conversion, something they usually don't do with privately owned track. It will all get sorted out in the end, as GWA only have to threaten to give the track back to the state government, which would then mean they have to maintain it as well.

[Straze]

I am in favor of the train services being extended to the Barossa Valley because it will help provide residents with a fast, cheap, reliable and efficient public transport to and from the city, i believe it may also increase tourist activity in the area which in turn is good for the local economy.

[iTouch]

I totally agree with this, this would help tourists a lot (as would maccas in Nurioopta but thats another opinionated story of mine). maybe they could have a bus system that goes from the train station out to each township in a circular route as well.

[Waewick]

I totally agree with this, this would help tourists a lot (as would maccas in Nurioopta but thats another opinionated story of mine). maybe they could have a bus system that goes from the train station out to each township in a circular route as well.

I'm sorry but a macca in nuri wouldn't help anyone let alone tourists.

people who think having a macca's is the sign of a growing/town area are clearly delusional.

[rhino]

I love the thread title. It never occured to me that the Barossa Rail Line would head in a new direction. If it did, we'd have to change it's name.

And I totally agree about Maccas - it's the beginning of the end of the town's character, and the start of it becoming indistinguishable from everywhere else.

[Wilfy 2007]

Hi,
Some interesting reading in this thread.
Was talking to an Ingle farm resident last night, who has been involved with the Barossa Rail Passenger action group since January 2008 and he advised that the CEO from the Barossa Council told a reporter from the Barossa Herald Newspaper that the Railway line from Nuri to Angaston will be ripped up next month and GWA had given the Council permission to do so to make way for the 1/2 a million dollar Bike Path/ Walking path.

The above articles state that Penrice and GWA support a passenger service to the Barossa, but obviously not to the Angaston Station.

The Angaston Station precinct is to be disected into 5 diferent lots of land ownership. Not sure how this has been achieved as it is a State heritage listed property.

There is to be 12 housing lots to be sold, One block of land at the end of the Platform is to be used for development by the Subaru Dealer, the Station and freight shed is to be taken over by a Preservation Machinery group and the top corner by the Hotel is to be used for a car park. Down the middle of the Precinct the Bike path/Wakling path will also be developed.

So it looks like a passenger service will have to terminate at Nuriootpa, with perhaps a new Transport Interchange built at the old Goods Platform of the Nuri Station Precinct.

Be interesting to see what the outcome of all this will be.

Regards,
Brian Leedham.
A member of the Barossa Rail Passneger action group.

[Wilfy 2007]

Have put a proposal forward to the Pollies and local council for an Interchange at Nuriootpa, where the old goods platform still stands.

[Wilfy 2007]

A full photo of the Goods siding.

[iTouch]

^^^ Good idea. Let's hope the old station isn't heritage listed, it'd cost all government income to fix up that building

[fabricator]

^^^ Good idea. Let's hope the old station isn't heritage listed, it'd cost all government income to fix up that building

It is heritage listed, but no one cares. Welcome to adelaide, where old building are left to rot to save $$$.

[Wilfy 2007]

Good Morning,

Trying to find out about the Nuriootpa Goods Shed.

Anybody know when this goods shed was knocked down.

Was still standing in 1994 as far as I am aware.

Any help would be much appreciated

Regards,

[William]

Cost is always going to be a major factor when one will acquire what is needed or not, in reference to our state having the money is one thing, deciding what to spend it on is another.

There are those who firmly believe that for something to have money spent on it like certain infrastructures, it must make profit, all very well however, when it comes to spending money on public transport making it profitable is a nice dream, having it as a necessity, that is what is really the fact here, I doubt that even with the South Australian metro rail upgrades we will ever see it make a profit, but having it is an essential part of what makes the state function as a community.

When it comes to having a service to places such as the Barossa, Mt Barker, Murray Bridge or building a new line to Aldinga or beyond, I think one has to look past (gee is there going to be enough development in the immediate future to support these services).They built the Willunga line to support the growth in the area and then proceeded to pull it up when today having that line in place would have made a whole lot of sense.

In the country (our regional areas) people there have a saying that the govt and city folk believe that life stops at Gepps Cross, and seeing that much of the infrastructure for public transport doesn’t go beyond the metro limits it’s easy to understand where they are coming from.
.”What Govt has even considered the future transportation aspects..outside of metro Adelaide”.? Answer nothing, a big fat zero.
Out there beyond the city limits, there are no govt run services, people are left to find their own means to get into the city, privatisation of the rail system to our regional towns has meant that it is left to private enterprise to run connecting services to these areas, sometimes at very high rates, unfortunately, when the govt sold off these rail corridors they either didn’t think, remember, consider or careless about those who live in the Barossa, Willunga, Mt Barker or any other outer city areas that they still needed a decent reliable public transport service for those who need to get to the city for work, school, or they need a decent public railway because of age constraints, (too young or too old to drive long distances)(or those who have no drivers licence), there are those who are disabled and/or regularly travel to the city for a multitude of reasons such as medical appointments, to be able to purchase goods or just to visit.

Many of these areas such as Mt Barker have grown quite rapidly over the last 10-15 years and now more than ever these lines would have made a huge difference to the amount of traffic on the roads, the road toll every year plus, making this state an affordable attractive place to live, creating new jobs in many different fields, and creating, maintaining and supporting growth in tourism, but no what did we do? How’s that old saying go? “Don’t through out the baby with the bath water”
The Barossa Wine train is perfect to support tourism straight from the heart of the city to one of the most famous wine regions in the world, Even the tourism centres in Gawler and Tanunda asked the govt to take this operation on board because of the amount of enquiries they receive each week from tourists who want to know if there is a passenger rail service to the Valley.

I would also say that if a metro rail service went to Mt.Barker, even Steam Ranger would see an increase injection in tourism dollars to their operations.

Do we really want to see rail preservation in SA? I would say most people in this state would say yes, going on what I and others have been told since 2003 by the general public.

“Is it becoming too expensive now?” Well considering that we are apparently the highest cost in rates, fees and charges by private enterprise in SA to use any of the lines outside the metro area compared to other states. Probably

"Mr Venning and the council supported the re-introduction of the Wine Train, but insisted locals needed an alternative and affordable commuter service.

“I don’t understand why it is so difficult. I know people would use the service. I would definitely use it if it was there,” he said.

But local federal MP Nick Champion is opposed to reinstating the line – precisely because it would improve services and thereby attract more residents.

He said a new commuter rail service would inevitably bring pressure for urbanisation and sub-division".

“This would destroy the distinctive character and beauty of the Barossa Valley area.”

OHH Hummm should I grab my wench by the hair and drag her to the front of the cave rub two sticks together to cook my dinner, Mr Champion sounds like one of these boring conservatives that doesn’t want SA to move forward, now don’t get me wrong, I believe in saving certain heritage builds etc, and when there was the threat that many of the vines around the chateau were going to be ripped out to make way for housing, Mr Geber bought land surrounding the Chateau to prevent this from happening, and good on him for doing so, but the Barossa valley has many opportunities for future development and growth creating jobs for the local area while enhancing and increasing tourism without destroying the appeal of what the Barossa is famous for, the Barossa Valley will need to embrace change though if it is to compete at the same level as many other worldwide tourist attractions, after all there is no point in keeping the area quaint and stopping development and growth, this stagnates an opportunity at all levels for the Valley to prosper and grow in many different areas, without growth the area could become boring and lifeless filled with a very conservative community that could be seen as unapproachable, or too old fashioned .

Time to leave the Dark Ages where they belong

[Aidan]

Cost is always going to be a major factor when one will acquire what is needed or not, in reference to our state having the money is one thing, deciding what to spend it on is another.

There are those who firmly believe that for something to have money spent on it like certain infrastructures, it must make profit, all very well however, when it comes to spending money on public transport making it profitable is a nice dream, having it as a necessity, that is what is really the fact here, I doubt that even with the South Australian metro rail upgrades we will ever see it make a profit, but having it is an essential part of what makes the state function as a community.

I think that's now the majority view, but that's not really the point. Money spent on public transport should be spent as cost effectively as possible even when there's no chance at all of making a profit.

When it comes to having a service to places such as the Barossa, Mt Barker, Murray Bridge or building a new line to Aldinga or beyond, I think one has to look past (gee is there going to be enough development in the immediate future to support these services).They built the Willunga line to support the growth in the area and then proceeded to pull it up when today having that line in place would have made a whole lot of sense.

But they want Willunga and McLaren vale to stay rural.

In the country (our regional areas) people there have a saying that the govt and city folk believe that life stops at Gepps Cross, and seeing that much of the infrastructure for public transport doesn’t go beyond the metro limits it’s easy to understand where they are coming from.

Considering how far the metro limits are from Gepps Cross, no it isn't.

.”What Govt has even considered the future transportation aspects..outside of metro Adelaide”.? Answer nothing, a big fat zero.
Out there beyond the city limits, there are no govt run services, people are left to find their own means to get into the city, privatisation of the rail system to our regional towns has meant that it is left to private enterprise to run connecting services to these areas, sometimes at very high rates, unfortunately, when the govt sold off these rail corridors they either didn’t think, remember, consider or careless about those who live in the Barossa, Willunga, Mt Barker or any other outer city areas that they still needed a decent reliable public transport service for those who need to get to the city for work, school, or they need a decent public railway because of age constraints, (too young or too old to drive long distances)(or those who have no drivers licence), there are those who are disabled and/or regularly travel to the city for a multitude of reasons such as medical appointments, to be able to purchase goods or just to visit.

A decent reliable public transport service does not always equate with a rail service. In Mount Barker's case the trains to Adelaide would be much slower than express buses.

Many of these areas such as Mt Barker have grown quite rapidly over the last 10-15 years and now more than ever these lines would have made a huge difference to the amount of traffic on the roads, the road toll every year plus, making this state an affordable attractive place to live, creating new jobs in many different fields, and creating, maintaining and supporting growth in tourism, but no what did we do? How’s that old saying go? “Don’t through out the baby with the bath water”
The Barossa Wine train is perfect to support tourism straight from the heart of the city to one of the most famous wine regions in the world, Even the tourism centres in Gawler and Tanunda asked the govt to take this operation on board because of the amount of enquiries they receive each week from tourists who want to know if there is a passenger rail service to the Valley.

The case for trains to the Barossa is a lot stronger than to other destinations because the track is already there and fairly direct.

I would also say that if a metro rail service went to Mt.Barker, even Steam Ranger would see an increase injection in tourism dollars to their operations.

Steamranger would be the ones to benefit most, but it would be more sensible for Steamranger to run the service.

Do we really want to see rail preservation in SA? I would say most people in this state would say yes, going on what I and others have been told since 2003 by the general public.

Preservation is a different issue to use in normal service.

“Is it becoming too expensive now?” Well considering that we are apparently the highest cost in rates, fees and charges by private enterprise in SA to use any of the lines outside the metro area compared to other states. Probably

Do you have the figures?

"Mr Venning and the council supported the re-introduction of the Wine Train, but insisted locals needed an alternative and affordable commuter service.

Maybe when the new trains enter service, some of the old ones could be used on the Barossa line?

[Heardy_101]

I suppose you're reading this and going "Not this idiot from Railpage".... just give me a chance to explain what myself and the people I'm involved with what is trying to be achieved here.

Just some background information plus some more recent details.

My original idea was some drafts I had been doing (which I intend to publish regardless of the outcome of this project), nicknamed "Regional Railway Development", outlining key issues and reasons why the Government should progressively re-instate Public Rail Transport to Country SA, not just to the North where I live but also South to the likes of Mount Barker and Murray Bridge. I admit I am not expert, however I can learn enough from experience and by doing long hours of research online (mainly the Transport forums ), getting ideas as well as putting in my two bobs worth of my own. This lead to my "RRD", which remains incomplete however I do plan to finish and eventually publish it as I mentioned above.

This lead me to an idea about starting up an "Action Group" or, as I ended up putting it, a "Consortium", aiming to get some old passenger lines and routes back on track (pun intended), either privately or by campaigning the Government to do so. Admittedly, I doubt that my original action group plan would have advanced very quickly at all and the process would have taken years. I would have found the right people to talk to as well as gotten numbers together to get the ball rolling, start finding out the facts and figures and of course getting the public and key MPs involved.

After posting my initial idea of a "Consortium" group on Railpage and Australian Transport Discussion Board (Bus Australia), I came into contact with an investor (David von Peters), who in fact had been working on the exact same idea for the past year or so. To cut the story short, he allowed me to know some more information and post it on the above sites, however due to some errors on my part which I will apologize to you all for, it all went haywire in a little more ways than the traditional Railpage fashion.

To cut it to the chase, here is some of the information I have been provided. Note that similar if not the same info has been posted on the forums mentioned by myself already if it looks familiar to you.

A large fertilizer company intends to build a new depot with rail connections near Blyth; A new SG line to the first new depot near Blyth will be built from the junction at Bowmans via Balaklava (the old Gladstone line), and then when a second planned depot is ready near Farrell Flat, the BG network will be converted to service this. All freight will be coming from Victoria on the SG network straight to the Facilities; no transshipment depots in Adelaide will be required. It would also allow Grain (wheat, barley, canola etc) and Hay traffic along the line from Blyth and possibly Brinkworth which removes the triple handling of it all.

The information that I have received is that about 20% of the sleepers on 2 out of the 3 BG lines (Burra and Kapunda) are still suitable for a few more years. They will be replaced with low profile DG concrete sleepers at the rate of 1 in 3 first year, and then full replacement when the Burra line is converted to SG to service the facility near Farrell Flat. This will allow for passenger operations on a Class 2 track speed limited to 100km/h.

The section from Hamley Bridge to Balaklava will have 1 in 4 sleepers replaced due to the fact that this line is only 60lb rail and will give a Class 3 rating on this line with speed restriction on this section, which will be timber until conversion. I know their initial budget of $30M is for sleeper replacement and initial development of the Blyth service. I think the main part of the project has about a $85M budget over 3 years which includes the rebuilding of the Balaklava to Hamley Bridge section with heavy rail. As mentioned above all lines will eventually be converted to SG.

Passenger lines planned include

GAWLER - BURRA (Via Roseworthy, Hamley Bridge, Riverton and Farrell Flat)
GAWLER - BALAKLAVA (Via Roseworthy, Wasleys and Hamley Bridge)
GAWLER - KAPUNDA (Via Roseworthy and Freeling).

Also being explored is the Barossa, running from GAWLER CENTRAL to either TANUNDA or NURIOOTPA.

The question would most likely be why run from Gawler and not Adelaide, the reason is because it would allow more flexibility with running times and would not interfere with metro running times. One simple example would be to look at the Stony Point Line in Melbourne, Electric Trains terminate at Frankston, where a Diesel service from Stony Point connects with the mainline service and vice versa.

This is extracted from my Consortium Facebook page. You can find it here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/254152641338426/ among other information and discussion.

You can also find me on Facebook as well(I have two, #1 is facebook.com/fingertips93 and #2 is facebook.com/heardy101 ).

[dbl96]

At this time a line to the Barrossa would defiantly be viable and useful (in terms of patronage). To justify passenger services into the mid north, you will need to drastically increase the population of the towns it serves. Incresing the populations of towns like Clare, Gladstone and Balakava would have many benefits, but it is important to look at ideas like the one you propose with a big picture vision.