[COM] Southern Expressway Duplication | $445m | 22km

[Straze]

I am against the duplication of the Southern Expressway. Why? Residents of the outer southern suburbs are going to find it harder to pay their bills i.e mortgage, water, electricity and petrol, so i think we need to extend the Tonsley Line to Hackham using the existing corridor. It will help the residents by providing them with a fast, cheap, reliable and efficient public transport to and from the city. The Main South Road is designed to carry high levels of commercial and freight traffic, so i think we need to improve it instead of abandoning it. By providing residents with a alternative to driving their cars it will in turn help take more cars off the South Road corridor.

[Aidan]

The need for the southbound bridge over the junction is a bit puzzling, though I'm guessing it's so that traffic from Flinders Drive to the Expressway doesn't have so much lane changing to do.

Its so the ambulances don't have to battle to change lanes, besides which, it can't add much to the total cost of those bridges anyway.

Ambulances entering South Road southbound could be controlled by the signals at Flinders Drive. Merging therefore would not be a problem with a single overpass.

But there won't be signals at Flinders Drive. The objective is to make it a non stop corridor!

Even with the two overpasses as shown, northbound ambulances on South Road still have to merge with one lane of traffic and navigate across another two to get into the right turn lanes into Flinders Drive.

While the right turn lane is on the right, this is correct. But when they make it nonstop, the right turn lane is far more likely to be on the left.

It would be interesting to see what's planned immediately to the north. At the northern end of the render there are 7 lanes northbound and this is not far from the signalised Flinders Drive T-junction. There also appears to be a centre barrier in the middle of the northbound overpass.

Initially when I saw that I thought it must be 5 lanes misinterpreted - but looking at it again, you're right - it's definitely seven, and I can't explain the barrier. So maybe Shuz's explanation is right.

I think honestly you guys are reading too much into the "render". It's more of a copy&paste job done by some journalist at the Advertiser offices, but obviously a pretty good one at that. I'd expect the final interchange design to be quite different.

Are you sure it's Advertiser not DTEI?

[Aidan]

This is really off topic here, so I suggest we direct replies to the South Road thread.

what dunstan should have done was start to upgrade south road back then and make it a 3/4 lane highway thru the western suburbs. he could have started buying up all the land along south road (much cheaper than doing it now) and gradually widening the road.

So because Dunstan didn't do it, we're stuck with what we've got now? Why didn't Steele Hall do it? David Tonkin? Dean Brown? John Ohlsen? Rob Kerrin?

basically yes!... decisions made 40 years ago on our infrastructure have long term impacts. that's why adelaide needs a long term strategic plan and not a political football.

steele hall was going to do it with the mats plan but he lost the election.

No, the MATS plan had a separate corridor.

I could be wrong, but I think there are now development restrictions along South Road, so that when land along it is redeveloped they have to leave a gap at the front, making it easier for South Road to eventually be widened. We should only need about 4m more, as a wide median would no longer be needed.

dean brown was too busy saving the state from bankruptcy and selling off etsa to bother with transport infrastructure.

'Twas John Olsen who sold off ETSA. And far from saving the state from bankruptcy, Dean Brown wasted money on corporate welfare and ignored what the state really needed. He was the one responsible for the southern suburbs getting half a freeway - I'll leave others to judge whether or not that was a good thing.

Overpasses are generally better in commercial and industrial areas, but in residential areas they're visually intrusive and too noisy.

this would be true in the leafy eastern suburbs but the western suburbs along south road are anything but... mostly it's light industrial, warehouses and lots of slums so a giant concrete structure wont be such an eyesore as it would be in st peters.

I know the houses there aren't worth as much a their eastern suburb counterparts, but do you have any evidence that they're slums?

[Shuz]

I've put together a concept design of the way the interchanges could work with the surrounding roads.

CONCEPT ONLY. Just guessing at what could be.

For the bigger size click here; http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/436 ... 0b58_o.jpg

[iTouch]

I think honestly you guys are reading too much into the "render". It's more of a copy&paste job done by some journalist at the Advertiser offices, but obviously a pretty good one at that. I'd expect the final interchange design to be quite different.

I agree, for starters, there probably won't be as much concrete as that... Adelaide loves its dirt hill leverages and I'm sure they will be using those far more than concrete pillars and concrete supports

[Waewick]

Back on topic looking at the current expressway on google maps there does seem to be significant space for the additional road way bar a couple of overpasses which will need to be expanded.

However, Yesterday on ABC an old guy rung up implying that there will need to be significant earthworks done (he called them explosions I think) to get through some parts.

If what was qouted earlier in this thread is true (the original 1 way was done with the understanding we will go dual way down the track) surely the amount of earthworks is going to be limited?

The dream part i'll add to my post is that wouldn't it be great for them to extend the freeway to end at victor harbor road thus eliminating the victor/south road intersection totally.

[Nort]

I know the houses there aren't worth as much a their eastern suburb counterparts, but do you have any evidence that they're slums?

drive thru some of those inner western suburbs and most of the houses are old and dingy... even bernie eccelstone called adelaide a slum town.

Just because the houses in that area might be older and worth a bit less doesn't mean however that residents have any less right to not have a massive overpass looking down into their backyards.

[Hooligan]

Perhaps make South Road 6x6 lanes there .

36 lanes?

[zap brannigan]

Back on topic looking at the current expressway on google maps there does seem to be significant space for the additional road way bar a couple of overpasses which will need to be expanded.

However, Yesterday on ABC an old guy rung up implying that there will need to be significant earthworks done (he called them explosions I think) to get through some parts.

i heard the chap who is going to build this freeway on radio this morning and he reckons it will be a doddle.

the extra lanes will be built on the western side and there is mainly empty land and no houses or services to worry about... although all the bridges and overpasses will have to be rebuilt.
he plans to start earthworks middle of next year.

[AtD]

There's no reason the new carriageway has to be built only on one side. For example, the Hume Hwy duplication frequently swapped sides depending what's most convenient to build on.

[Aidan]

There's no reason the new carriageway has to be built only on one side. For example, the Hume Hwy duplication frequently swapped sides depending what's most convenient to build on.

True. But there is an advantage to doing so: it's less disruptive to the existing road. Admittedly the Southern Expressway is closed so much that this is less of a problem than normal, but restricting the times that work can be done is still likely to increase the cost.

[Nort]

Back on topic looking at the current expressway on google maps there does seem to be significant space for the additional road way bar a couple of overpasses which will need to be expanded.

However, Yesterday on ABC an old guy rung up implying that there will need to be significant earthworks done (he called them explosions I think) to get through some parts.

i heard the chap who is going to build this freeway on radio this morning and he reckons it will be a doddle.

the extra lanes will be built on the western side and there is mainly empty land and no houses or services to worry about... although all the bridges and overpasses will have to be rebuilt.
he plans to start earthworks middle of next year.

Why rebuild when you can just build new ones next door. Driving along Sturt highway a couple of weeks ago it was interesting to see how many crossings there are now where one direction will have a shiny new bridge while the othe side is on an old bridge.

[zap brannigan]

There's no reason the new carriageway has to be built only on one side. For example, the Hume Hwy duplication frequently swapped sides depending what's most convenient to build on.

True. But there is an advantage to doing so: it's less disruptive to the existing road. Admittedly the Southern Expressway is closed so much that this is less of a problem than normal, but restricting the times that work can be done is still likely to increase the cost.

the builder chap was confident he could bring the project in under budget because it was so relatively simple.

[Waewick]

Back on topic looking at the current expressway on google maps there does seem to be significant space for the additional road way bar a couple of overpasses which will need to be expanded.

However, Yesterday on ABC an old guy rung up implying that there will need to be significant earthworks done (he called them explosions I think) to get through some parts.

i heard the chap who is going to build this freeway on radio this morning and he reckons it will be a doddle.

the extra lanes will be built on the western side and there is mainly empty land and no houses or services to worry about... although all the bridges and overpasses will have to be rebuilt.
he plans to start earthworks middle of next year.

good to hear the condifence in it getting done easily (well in comparison I guess)

given that both parties have committed to it I would hope that works get started ASAP.

[muzzamo]

I think it will be interesting to see if the bridges do get duplicated or not. Many of the bridges have the veloway AND a pedestrian walkway on either side, plus an emergency lane or two going under them. You could fit 2 or 3 more lanes through some of them. Take a look at this one for instance. It would come real close to doing 3+3 as it is, if you removed the veloway, walkway, emergency lane and some dirt that it also spans.