[COM] Victoria Square Upgrade - $24m

[rhino]

I don't think crossing a road is much of an issue either. The big problem currently is that you have to cross two roads to get into the square when coming from the north or south. One road is fine.

Well, this will change under the new plan, where the square has the road go around it like Wellington Square or Whitmore Square. Then any pedestrians will only have to cross one road to reach the square from any direction.

Good plan, IMO. Now let's get it built.

[Prince George]

Please make a submission – comments here are great, but submissions feed into the process;

...

Finally – keep in mind any critical comments challenge the expertise of the internationally award winning architects/landscape architects and elite expert design panel overseeing them. That’s a team of highly qualified, experienced and world renowned people that have invested their life in the field. Hence if you are going to bag the design I ask you to first read all the material in detail. What we need is a result; having visited public squares in over 35 international cities in the last 10 years I think this is excellent.

I'll certainly be making a submission, I wonder if Sen-Ad could gather enough consensus to put in a collaborative one?

Can you tell us what is the process from this point, Councillor? This plan is being presented to us all as rather a fait accompli; what are the points on which submissions may have an impact? I do wonder if more attention should be paid to Jan Gehl's distinction of thinking of Victoria Square as "a process not a project" (q.v. this article from back in 2004)

I also question the notion that we should just let experts do their expert thing and leave it at that. Nobody here should need to think too hard to recall examples of expertly designed monstrosities. The Pruitt-Igoe complex had architecture media fawning over it in 1950; 22 years later it was dynamited - "the day modern architecture died" - after a history of deep social problems; meanwhile in all that time Carr Square Village, just across the road, had nothing like those problems. Frank Lloyd Wright may be one of architecture's great auteurs, but very few of his houses are still occupied; many were destroyed, most of the survivors were bought by preservation societies and run as something like monuments or museums; the majority of the character homes that we fawn over now were built by people with no particular expertise at all.

That's not to say that expert skills aren't valuable for helping a place like Victoria Square: they are likely necessary but by themselves insufficient. Without the support of the people in the city, even the most beautiful place in the world would fail; disenfranchising people (ala Nathan Paine's admonishment "If you don't like it, just shut up.") isn't a good step for building support. Heck, failing to engage the public adequately was part of the problem with the 2002 plan crashing.

[Nort]

I'm still finding it a little difficult to visualize with the renders provided so far

i'm concerned as to where the KW traffic will end up as the new roads appear to be a lot narrower and obscured by the trees

I think in order to get people to use this square, it needs to be accessible and not an island surrounded by traffic. i'm not sure this design achieves that and I doubt its possible unless some part of the road is either closed off completely or goes underground.

I think the area in front of the Hilton/Market area should be an area where pedestrians can enter the square without having to cross a road. that will get people into and using the area.

Unless you want to turn the entire CBD into a vehicle free zone it then the majority of people visiting the square will have to cross a road to get there.

Having to cross a road to get to the square isn't a problem if the space itself is an appealing destination.

People go around Victoria Square at the moment because there is no reason to go into it. On the other hand go look at Federation square in Melbourne, the majority of people access the square by crossing a road from the tram stop or train station.

I don't think crossing a road is much of an issue either. The big problem currently is that you have to cross two roads to get into the square when coming from the north or south. One road is fine.

Indeed, check out this picture (courtesy of Wikipedia)



It was before the tram line was put in, but the road layout is still the same. If I am understanding everything correctly the three traffic lanes to the right of the image will become part of the square with the two on the left becoming the main road. That's a massive increase in the size of Victoria Square and a substantial removal of its current traffic island feeling.

I'm quite excited, and I think there will be some good photos to come from here in a few years. Imagine looking from the southern end of the square. Wetlands in the foreground, a busy crowd at some public event in the center and the completed City Central development looking down on it all.

[skyliner]

Bit late catching up with this one. After reading all the comments I say get on with it. Never will we get 100% approval. It's a great improvement on what is there. It is still able to be improved and tweaked - even when built. Night illumination very effective. I think we have learnt what lighting can do from Rundle Lantern and the Ent Cent.

The only part I have difficulty with is the Grote St/Wakefield St crossing - with increasing traffic could be a real problem. (BUT... if we use more public transport, reduce size and number of carparks etc etc it might still handle future requirements).

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE

[Stubbo]

I could find issues to nit pick on, but comparing this to the current Vic Square, man what an improvement! As already stated, a wish list would include undergrounding east west traffic, an underground car park and bus terminal and a large spire / cafe / statement / viewing platform/ etc in the middle of roughly 150m in height....

BUT, at the end of the day, weighing up what has been presented, if no changes were made to the current proposal, it would be a massive improvement and I would go and have a look (enjoy being in Vic Square, who would have thought...) As has already been mentioned, if the tv shows say soccer finals or other important events, I would seriously consider going in to watch, which is a pretty big shift in the way you think of Vic Square...

I just hope it isn't derailed with too many negative voices (which is different to constructive feedback by the way)

[rhino]

As this proposal makes the square a big round-about, I wonder if it's worth making Angas-Gouger Streets westbound only, and Frankin-Flinders eastbound only? The reason being that if you can enter the square from Flinders or Gouger streets, you will have to go right around the square (or at least to Grote-Wakefield) to continue, and that will add so much more traffic to the 'roundabout', that can be avoided by making them one-way routes, at least between Morphett and Pulteney Streets.

[crawf]

Ten News will be doing a story on this, they showed a snip of a random person saying it looks like a 'poor mans version of Federation Square'.

Fed Sq development and Victoria Square are the opposite of each other!

Its high time Adelaide start creating its own identity and not copying other cities.

[AtD]

It's a pitty the plan doesn't include more pedestrian crossings at Gouger, Angus, Flinders and Franklin Streets as well as the Central Market Arcade. It should be able to be done without too much interruption in traffic.

Now we need someone with the guts and the money to actually build this.

[pushbutton]

It's the best of the many many many Victoria Square plans I've seen so far, and it's the best by miles! My only concern is that only a quarter of the funding that is needed has so far been secured. However it does sound like the State Government will probably help.

Enough talk. Enough consultations. Enough plans. Enough submissions. It's now time for ACTION, and if anyone doesn't like it, tough!!!

[ricecrackers]

I think its kind of interesting that the centrepiece of our town is going to be a big screen television

If it is on all-the-time at least it may give the couch potatoes somewhere to congregate
hopefully too they will be selling snacks nearby but unfortunately i doubt beer will be available

on a positive though, i do like the southern end..it reminds me a bit of those well laid out northern European cities

[crawf]

THE Opposition says it would ensure the Victoria Square overhaul goes ahead if in power and has challenged the State Government to deliver the money required to complete the project.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 5864255992

[skyliner]

Ten News will be doing a story on this, they showed a snip of a random person saying it looks like a 'poor mans version of Federation Square'.

Fed Sq development and Victoria Square are the opposite of each other!

Its high time Adelaide start creating its own identity and not copying other cities.

Agree!! Comparisons to Fed Sq. annoying me. We are not Melbourne, or Brisbane ETC ETC Lets stop whinging. As I said before, not everyone will be pleased.

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE

[how_good_is_he]

To Clr Yarwood if private companies were to pay for an underground carpark, roads etc would that be a possible option if council/govt won't spend more? There is only one chance to do this properly. My main concern is lack of funds may compromise the integrity and final success of this. Its a very good start but not if it just gets ripped up in 20 years. Fed square, Opera House etc define their cities and this could ours. I doubt budget was the focus on these developments. Is the council/govt hamstrung because they are confined to a budget rather than the best possible outcome and should you think outside the square by partnering with private companies.

[jk1237]

well, I havent seen much of the detail yet caus I just got home, but Im so excited about it I had to post. Looks good and interesting so far. The only comparison I will do with Fed Square in Melb is that you can just sit there on the steps, hang out and watch the world go by with a few things to do and see, for hours. This is what I want for Vic square, and the screen should hopefully make this work, but other than that I dont want Vic Sq to look anything like Fed Sq, as I want it to be unique, and this looks quite unique in a way. Quite happy

[jordan85]

Hurry up and start this!!!

I'm in love with it all. Just got back from a trip to the US and the landscaping in the Southern half of the new Vic Square reminds me of the Highline in New York.

Build it, build it, build it!