[COM] Adelaide Oval Redevelopment

[ricecrackers]

What else are these clowns in Government not telling us???? Time for a re-election.

re-elect who though?

[Waewick]

What else are these clowns in Government not telling us???? Time for a re-election.

re-elect who though?

anyone.

Its a shame that state politics has become a place of last resort for those not good enough for anything else.

[cruel_world00]

Re-title thread: The Schemozzle.

[venue man]

Hi there i'm new

I have a few suggestions in regards to adelaide oval and adelaide united.

Adelaide should build a stadium that changes capacity depending on event. Example if adelaide united play the capacity of the stadium should be 31,000, similar to aami park melbourne. If a major event comes to town, like socceroos, wallabies, state of origin, with the use of retractable seats behind the goal posts, the capacity would change to 40000. 4500 seats on each end. These retractable seats would therefore appear and disappear.

Costing of stadium:Reports suggests 250 million. I reckon you should build a cost effective stadium to convince the state govern ment to build. Example win stadium in wollongong they are going to build a grandstand of 6100 seats worth 29 million dollars. Do the maths, in adelaide for a 40000 seat stadium,(with 9000 retractable seats) the cost would be roughly 200 million.

You could also transfer 9000 seats from hindmarsh and take it to the new stadium and use it on those retractable. Besides Hindmarsh was recently deveoped in 2000. THat is also a cheaper option. Get a sponsor to have naming rights to the stadium, and therefore you make the stadium viable.

Spending 450 million on an upgrade of adelaide oval is nuts. As for afl, well they can fund it, thats one way of stopping them from poaching nrl players.

[flavze]

Hi there i'm new

I have a few suggestions in regards to adelaide oval and adelaide united.

Adelaide should build a stadium that changes capacity depending on event. Example if adelaide united play the capacity of the stadium should be 31,000, similar to aami park melbourne. If a major event comes to town, like socceroos, wallabies, state of origin, with the use of retractable seats behind the goal posts, the capacity would change to 40000. 4500 seats on each end. These retractable seats would therefore appear and disappear.

Costing of stadium:Reports suggests 250 million. I reckon you should build a cost effective stadium to convince the state govern ment to build. Example win stadium in wollongong they are going to build a grandstand of 6100 seats worth 29 million dollars. Do the maths, in adelaide for a 40000 seat stadium,(with 9000 retractable seats) the cost would be roughly 200 million.

You could also transfer 9000 seats from hindmarsh and take it to the new stadium and use it on those retractable. Besides Hindmarsh was recently deveoped in 2000. THat is also a cheaper option. Get a sponsor to have naming rights to the stadium, and therefore you make the stadium viable.

Spending 450 million on an upgrade of adelaide oval is nuts. As for afl, well they can fund it, thats one way of stopping them from poaching nrl players.

the cost of building a stadium like that would be huge, movable/adjustable grandstands are alot more expensive to build and maintain.

The new stand you are talking about at WIN stadium would be awesome for the eastern side of Hindmarsh though and would give it a swag more corporate boxes and a slight increase in spectator capacity.
Make Holden street one way and finich of the Northern end of the western stand, copy the North end of WIN stadium at the Northern end of Hindmarsh, chuck a cheap roof over the southern stand an you would have a sweet lil 20-25k stadium that would be awesome for Soccer not cost the earth.
But thats a bit off topic.

[Hooligan]

[venue man]

Hi there Flavze

You mentioned that building and maintaining the stadium would be expensive, you maybe right. However, with these movable seating grandstands either end of the ground it would be like that for the next 15 years, rough est.Then those seats would become permenant when hopefully by then adelaide united averages 25 or 30000 people.

Hindmarsh stadium is not long term, it is a band aid fix. In 15 years time if you want to build a 40000 rectangular stadium from scratch, -now that would be expensive.

What should happen is sell off hindmarsh stadium to fund the rectangular stadium, while aami stadium should be sold off to help fund adelaide oval for cricket and afl only. That way soccer and afl don't have to butt heads in the long term. Then adelaide would have two venues Adelaide oval 50000, while the new rectangular stadium would be 31000-40000. No white elephants or black elephants.

[stumpjumper]

Hmm. I hear the trumpeting of a big white elephant loud and clear, and it's down at Adelaide Oval.

We're in big trouble. On the weekend I attended a social function with some employees of a couple of the contractors involved at AO.

Apparently, current thinking in Foley's office is that we won't get the the World Cup and that Stage Two won't be built - and we'll use the excuse of expense.

I asked why, if the Western Grandstand would cost, according to Ian McLachlan, $10,000 per seat or $145 million (even though nearly 200% over budget), then why would stage two of say 30,000 seats cost more than $450 million - ie for $15,000 per seat?

The reason is that the government wants out, although they will offer to put up the $450 million if AOSMA will put up the rest. AOSMA says the risk is too high (ie the return is too low) for them to actually risk a dollar of their own. I was told (but can't confirm) that the government even paid for Demetriou to come over here, so the AFL's exposure will remain at $0.

There is a costing floating around of $800 million for stage two plus associated work at AO, making the whole project worth just under a billion for a non-FIFA compliant non-rectangular horseshoe shaped open stadium with the biggest grandstand facing the afternoon sun and the prevailing wind, certainly the most expensive sports stadium in Australia and probably in the world, while simultaneously being one of the worst-designed and least profitable. As a bonus, the National Trust is likely to request the government to remove the state heritage listing from Adelaide Oval. If the colossal stage two is built, it's also unlikely that the quaint cricket venue will retain its reputation as the World's Most Beautiful Oval.

If it the whole SACA dream were built, the resulting pile of debt and half-baked stadium would be a suitable flourish for the retirement of our Treasurer Kevin Foley, who by his own admission is 'not the sharpest tool in the shed' and who 'makes mistakes, too many' and has 'made the wrong decision, too often'.

Our track record shows that when you mix politics with sports stadia in Adelaide, the result is often flawed - eg Hindmarsh and to a lesser extent AAMI.

It appears that the contract for the Western Grandstand is of the open book or cost plus type, which heavily favours the contractors who have no reason to contain costs - put simply they charge the client what they say work has cost them plus a percentage for profit. The alternative, a fixed price contract with a delivery date, penalties and cost increases only by agreed variation is a lot tougher on contractors but is generally favoured by people using their own money.

[stumpjumper]

Just out of interest. Note that the shape of Adelaide Oval is different to that shown. I'm just listening to Aurelio Vidmar stating the logic behind a new, Etihad style stadium. The fundamental problem here is that SA is run not by statesmen and women with the interest of the state at heart, but by a bunch of greedy bastards who just want to keep their a*ses planted firmly on the comfortable leather of the Treasury benches. So if pushing redevelopment of Adelaide Oval got them through the March election, they didn't care whether the idea was do-able, since they planned to ditch it after the election anyway.

[Prince George]

There is a costing floating around of $800 million for stage two plus associated work at AO, making the whole project worth just under a billion for a non-FIFA compliant non-rectangular horseshoe shaped open stadium with the biggest grandstand facing the afternoon sun and the prevailing wind, certainly the most expensive sports stadium in Australia and probably in the world, while simultaneously being one of the worst-designed and least profitable.

On this point, at least, you can rest assured that we've got some way to go to reach "most expensive in the world" territory. Back in the US of A, you have

• Cowboy's Stadium, home of the Dallas Cowboys (but actually in Arlington TX) set the city and state back US$1.3 Billion (initial estimate - US$650M),
• The new Yankee Stadium cost US$1.5 Billion, almost none of it paid for by the club that is the richest in baseball, but at least it's actually in NYC. Interesting to see that the new stadium holds 3,000 fewer than the old one.
• And biggest of all Meadowlands Stadium, which will be home of the New York Giants and the New York Jets (though it's not even in NY state, but in New Jersey) is not yet finished but will cost about US$1.6 Billion

UPDATE - silly me, Meadowlands is finished and has even been used just this April

[Straze]

My main concern is whether AFL is going to be worst off, the AAMI Stadium venue already has all the facilities that are required i.e. training and spectator facilities for Adelaide Crows and Port Adelaide Power games. Here are some facts from the AAMI Stadium website: AAMI Stadium is the biggest sports venue in South Australia, it has a seating capacity of 51,224, the playing arena spans around 2 hectares, around 1 million people visit the ground each year, the car park can cater for 8,750 cars (including Westfield West Lakes). In 2009 they have just opened a new Crows facility. To get people to and from Adelaide Crows and Port Adelaide games there are 23 Footy Express bus services, if the AFL games were moved to Adelaide Oval i think the majority of services will still have to run which means there will need to be a bus interchange or streets blocked off so that all these buses can drop off before the game and pick up after the game, unless they make all trains, trams and buses on game days free for all ticket holders. At the moment i feel that AFL games should stay at West Lakes, if SANFL want to move let them, i am sure AFL could afford to buy the venue and use it for themselves.

[rhino]

Here are some facts from the AAMI Stadium website: AAMI Stadium is the biggest sports venue in South Australia ..... the playing arena spans around 2 million hectares.

That's 7812 square miles of playing area!

[ricecrackers]

Hmm. I hear the trumpeting of a big white elephant loud and clear, and it's down at Adelaide Oval.

We're in big trouble. On the weekend I attended a social function with some employees of a couple of the contractors involved at AO.

Apparently, current thinking in Foley's office is that we won't get the the World Cup and that Stage Two won't be built - and we'll use the excuse of expense.

I asked why, if the Western Grandstand would cost, according to Ian McLachlan, $10,000 per seat or $145 million (even though nearly 200% over budget), then why would stage two of say 30,000 seats cost more than $450 million - ie for $15,000 per seat?

The reason is that the government wants out, although they will offer to put up the $450 million if AOSMA will put up the rest. AOSMA says the risk is too high (ie the return is too low) for them to actually risk a dollar of their own. I was told (but can't confirm) that the government even paid for Demetriou to come over here, so the AFL's exposure will remain at $0.

There is a costing floating around of $800 million for stage two plus associated work at AO, making the whole project worth just under a billion for a non-FIFA compliant non-rectangular horseshoe shaped open stadium with the biggest grandstand facing the afternoon sun and the prevailing wind, certainly the most expensive sports stadium in Australia and probably in the world, while simultaneously being one of the worst-designed and least profitable. As a bonus, the National Trust is likely to request the government to remove the state heritage listing from Adelaide Oval. If the colossal stage two is built, it's also unlikely that the quaint cricket venue will retain its reputation as the World's Most Beautiful Oval.

If it the whole SACA dream were built, the resulting pile of debt and half-baked stadium would be a suitable flourish for the retirement of our Treasurer Kevin Foley, who by his own admission is 'not the sharpest tool in the shed' and who 'makes mistakes, too many' and has 'made the wrong decision, too often'.

Our track record shows that when you mix politics with sports stadia in Adelaide, the result is often flawed - eg Hindmarsh and to a lesser extent AAMI.

It appears that the contract for the Western Grandstand is of the open book or cost plus type, which heavily favours the contractors who have no reason to contain costs - put simply they charge the client what they say work has cost them plus a percentage for profit. The alternative, a fixed price contract with a delivery date, penalties and cost increases only by agreed variation is a lot tougher on contractors but is generally favoured by people using their own money.

I doubt very much this will go ahead as recent reports suggest our WC bid is sunk due to the FFA not getting sufficient buy in from around the nation.

as for AO..its only South Australians that believe it is the 'World's Most Beautiful' ground...the rest of Australia dont think so let alone the rest of the world...and only English cricket fans could recognize it in a picture. as far as cricket grounds go, Newlands at Capetown has it covered by some margin. so the point being..we prevent a lot of development in this state because of local legends which grow over time to become irrational obstacles to progress.

it is a terrible mess this situation, but the good news for the Govt is that it will be sorted out in December after which they'll have 3 years to make the state forget about the fiasco before the next election.

[spiller]

Just out of interest. Note that the shape of Adelaide Oval is different to that shown. I'm just listening to Aurelio Vidmar stating the logic behind a new, Etihad style stadium. The fundamental problem here is that SA is run not by statesmen and women with the interest of the state at heart, but by a bunch of greedy bastards who just want to keep their a*ses planted firmly on the comfortable leather of the Treasury benches. So if pushing redevelopment of Adelaide Oval got them through the March election, they didn't care whether the idea was do-able, since they planned to ditch it after the election anyway.

It has been well documented that the straight boundry which results in the "D" shape of the oval has been rounded to "ovalise" the playing area and remove those deep, impossible pockets. This is part of the current western grand stand development. The above image will no longer be applicable and in fact that was just a map handed out to saca members showing the temporary re-allocation of ticketing during the construction period.

[JamesXander]

So what are we going to do if this doesn't go ahead?


AAMI is a dud investment, new stadium unviable & AO is controlled my a minnow association!

I think if this doesn't go ahead, the government should just pay the SACA the 85m and just tell em to nick off into irrelevancy.