COM: Northern Expressway | 22km

[drwaddles]

A52? Wouldn't it make more sense to rename it A32 (i.e. Main North Road between Barrier Highway and Sturt Highway)?

No, because any traffic moving between Adelaide and Tarlee/Burra/Broken Hill should be using the M20 - why would you encourage that traffic to use the 'old' route, which is what would be implied if you extended A32 along it.

The new number is the right move, god knows where they got the number from though.

[drwaddles]

There are signs right along the project saying M20

Pics or GTFO.

[Aidan]

A52? Wouldn't it make more sense to rename it A32 (i.e. Main North Road between Barrier Highway and Sturt Highway)?

Yes it would. Having said that, it would make more sense still for it to remain A20, as that would've been far cheaper. Melbourne's A8 keeps its number despite being bypassed by the M8.

Of course it could be argued that if we wanted to save money, we should have avoided giving the roads A numbers in the first place, but what's done is done.

No, because any traffic moving between Adelaide and Tarlee/Burra/Broken Hill should be using the M20 - why would you encourage that traffic to use the 'old' route, which is what would be implied if you extended A32 along it.

Firstly, neither road goes to Adelaide itself, and most of the traffic has suburban destinations. Having a different number just makes it more complicated for those going to or from Elizabeth (for example).

Secondly, do you seriously think many drivers would regard sticking to one route number as a more attractive option than a freeway???

Thirdly, do you also object to it keeping the name Main North Road?

[Nathan]

A52? Wouldn't it make more sense to rename it A32 (i.e. Main North Road between Barrier Highway and Sturt Highway)?

No, because any traffic moving between Adelaide and Tarlee/Burra/Broken Hill should be using the M20 - why would you encourage that traffic to use the 'old' route, which is what would be implied if you extended A32 along it.

The new number is the right move, god knows where they got the number from though.

How would it encourage traffic to use the 'old' route? Is there anyone that actually chooses how to get from A to B by the route number of the road?

[Nort]

Thirdly, do you also object to it keeping the name Main North Road?

Main North Road is the main road for if you want to go to somewhere in the northern fringes of Adelaide, the Northern Expressway doesn't replace that function.

Also it seems pretty sad to start arguing over road numbering.

[peas_and_corn]

what is the logic behind the numbering? You guys seem to imply that there is one

[DM8]

Been out today to have a look, progress is impressive. But was scratching my head over the A52 thing.

No, because any traffic moving between Adelaide and Tarlee/Burra/Broken Hill should be using the M20 - why would you encourage that traffic to use the 'old' route, which is what would be implied if you extended A32 along it.

I recall heading along the A8 in Melbourne heading towards the M80 interchange (in the days before the Deer Park Bypass). Now I could either continue along A8 or take the M80 - arterial road or freeway - I dare say most would choose the freeway route, regardless of route number. This here is a similar situation, and signage such as "Adelaide via Main North Rd" and "via Northern Expressway" at appropriate points is what would direct traffic, not the route number itself.

... god knows where they got the number from though.

what is the logic behind the numbering? You guys seem to imply that there is one

That's the point I was trying to make. Rebadging A20 as A32 would at least make sense - it's a southward continuation of Main North Road from Gawler Belt. To me, A52 makes no sense - it's just a previously unused 'A' number someone picked out to replace A20 on Main North Rd between Gepps Cross and the M20 interchange by the looks of things.

The Northern Connector would make things more interesting (when, or rather *if*, it gets built). Would M20 continue on that also? In that case (and a tad off topic, sorry), I wonder what happens when it hits the South Road Superway?

Also it seems pretty sad to start arguing over road numbering.

Agreed, guilty as charged. Just can't understand the logic.

[Aidan]

what is the logic behind the numbering? You guys seem to imply that there is one

I've finally worked it out: 'Tis a concurrence of the A20 and A32.

20+32=52.

[drwaddles]

Melbourne's A8 keeps its number despite being bypassed by the M8.

No it doesn't. The former route of A8 through Deer Park is now 'Metropolitan Route 8' - completely different to A8. But illogical in itself because Victoria has this hybrid of alpha-numerics and the old shielded routes.

A better example would be Sydney - National Route 1 moved onto the F3, old alignment becomes State Route 83. National Route 31 moved onto the the route of the Hume Hwy, old alignment becomes State Route 89 and so on.

Thirdly, do you also object to it keeping the name Main North Road?

No. However, I think the Northern Expressway should be named and signed as an extension of Sturt Highway.

Is there anyone that actually chooses how to get from A to B by the route number of the road?

Regardless of what you think of route numbering, the whole point of having the system is to help stranger drivers navigate. It makes much more sense to end the A32 and encourage use of the M20 to reach Adelaide, rather than imply that Main North Road is actually the major road into Adelaide, which it isn't.

The actual number given to Main North Road does not matter, as long as it is different to the section north of Gawler to reflect the different roles of the two sections.

The Northern Connector would make things more interesting (when, or rather *if*, it gets built). Would M20 continue on that also? In that case (and a tad off topic, sorry), I wonder what happens when it hits the South Road Superway?

My preferred option:

- M20 terminates at Port Wakefield Road
- A13 extended along Nothern Connector to Port Wakefield road
- Salsbury Highway renumbered to either A9 or something else.

Rationale:

- Direct connections from M20 and A13 to A1
- Northern Connector is not part of Adelaide-Sydney route, it is moreso part of the South Road corridor and the route numbering shoudl reflect that
- Salisbury Highway is no longer relevant to the majority of A13 traffic to/from the south so it should have its own number
- A9 is a convenient solution but I would be equally happy with a new number as Salisbury Hwy and PRE are two very different routes

---

Route marking is quite an undervalued concept - it is an important tool to aid navigation. Furthermore, if it is going to exist at all it should be done properly otherwise the investment is completely wasted.

SA has a reasonable system set up from scratch, however, it takes dedication to maintain the logic in that system. Renumberings like this are often left till the last minute or not budgeted for at all and don't get done - then the system starts to lose its logic.

Great example from Tasmania - when the Guildford-Hampshire line was built c1990 to provide a higher quality route from Burnie to the lower West Coast, it should have been numbered A10 because it is now the main West Coast to Burnie link. Unfortunately - due to opposition from businesses along the 'old' A10 and also budgetary constraints - this wasn't done. Now you have the illogical situation driving up the A10 where the main route actually has a different number and the A10 requires two turns to stay on the route and then takes you along the old low-standard route via the Hellyer Gorge.

[DM8]

what is the logic behind the numbering? You guys seem to imply that there is one

I've finally worked it out: 'Tis a concurrence of the A20 and A32.

20+32=52.

Well spotted - didn't see that one. I guess there's some logic to it then.

[Aidan]

Is there anyone that actually chooses how to get from A to B by the route number of the road?

Regardless of what you think of route numbering, the whole point of having the system is to help stranger drivers navigate. It makes much more sense to end the A32 and encourage use of the M20 to reach Adelaide, rather than imply that Main North Road is actually the major road into Adelaide, which it isn't.

It is a major road into Adelaide. And do you know of any drivers for whom M doesn't trump A?

As I said before, most drivers are going to suburban destnations.

And when the Southern Expressway finally gets duplicated, it will not make sense to renumber the stretch of South Road parallelling it!

The actual number given to Main North Road does not matter, as long as it is different to the section north of Gawler to reflect the different roles of the two sections.

Giving them different numbers is more a hindrance than a help. Why should there be an unnecessary number change for drivers going to Elizabeth?

The Northern Connector would make things more interesting (when, or rather *if*, it gets built). Would M20 continue on that also? In that case (and a tad off topic, sorry), I wonder what happens when it hits the South Road Superway?

My preferred option:

- M20 terminates at Port Wakefield Road
- A13 extended along Nothern Connector to Port Wakefield road
- Salsbury Highway renumbered to either A9 or something else.

Rationale:

- Direct connections from M20 and A13 to A1
- Northern Connector is not part of Adelaide-Sydney route, it is moreso part of the South Road corridor and the route numbering shoudl reflect that
- Salisbury Highway is no longer relevant to the majority of A13 traffic to/from the south so it should have its own number
- A9 is a convenient solution but I would be equally happy with a new number as Salisbury Hwy and PRE are two very different routes

The Northern Connector will be built to motorway standard from scratch - surely it deserves an M number?
And if it's getting an M number and is a continuation of the M20, the best number for it is obviously M20.

I agree that A9 is the best number for the Salisbury Highway. Though they're different routes, they join end to end, so sharing a number is appropriate, at least until Montague Road's extended. And after that happens, the PREXY can be renumbered to something with an M prefix - possibly M4, with Montague Road gaining the number A4.

Route marking is quite an undervalued concept - it is an important tool to aid navigation. Furthermore, if it is going to exist at all it should be done properly otherwise the investment is completely wasted.

But what does done properly actually mean? Is there really any great disadvantage to having prefixes for metropolitan roads but just using shield numbers for country roads?

SA has a reasonable system set up from scratch, however, it takes dedication to maintain the logic in that system. Renumberings like this are often left till the last minute or not budgeted for at all and don't get done - then the system starts to lose its logic.

I don't think there's much logic in unnecessary renumberings!

Great example from Tasmania - when the Guildford-Hampshire line was built c1990 to provide a higher quality route from Burnie to the lower West Coast, it should have been numbered A10 because it is now the main West Coast to Burnie link. Unfortunately - due to opposition from businesses along the 'old' A10 and also budgetary constraints - this wasn't done.

That's not the unfortunate bit. The real problem isn't that the new road isn't numbered A10, it's that it's been given a B prefix. Had it been given an A, it wouldn't be so easy to ignore.

Now you have the illogical situation driving up the A10 where the main route actually has a different number and the A10 requires two turns to stay on the route and then takes you along the old low-standard route via the Hellyer Gorge.

I seriously wonder what you'd make of England's A2. At 51.3965°N, 0.4889°E it is a local road with 1 lane each way and school speed restrictions. 5km further W it's an 8 lane freeway!

[AtD]

This is the most mind numbing argument ever.

[Omicron]

This is the most mind numbing argument ever.

+1

[metro]

This is the most mind numbing argument ever.

It's the kind of discussion you'd expect to find on sites like Failpage

[iTouch]

This is the most mind numbing argument ever.

+1

+1