[COM] South Road Superway | $842m | 3km

[drsmith]

If there's only loose change from $1bn in building a viaduct from south of the PR expressway to north of Regency Road, then it's hard to imagine a free-flowing solution from Regency Road to Anzac Highway costing under $4bn bearing in mind more difficult (costly) conditions than north of Regency Road.

Even an upgrade to 6 lanes at grade would be seriously expensive (>$1bn ??) if the proposed upgrade of Great Eastern Highway (Perth) between Burswood and the airport is anything to go by.

http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Building ... s/GEH.aspx

This is estimated to cost $225m to do part of the project (2.6km), includes no grade seperations and is over easier conditions than South Road (Main Roads WA all ready owns some of the land required for the upgrade).

6 lanes from Regency Road with grade seperations (underpasses) at Regeny Road, Outer Harbour Rail, Port Road and Sir Donald Bradman Drive $1.5bn to $2bn ??

[crawf]

The best solution is to follow RAA's vision of a 6-8km tunnel.

Would likely be the most expensive project ever done in Adelaide though it will transform that deathtrap into a proper highway.

Either way the upgrade of that section of South Road is probably at least another 6-10 years away

[Aidan]

A better solution would be 4 overpasses, the tunnel / long underpass under the railway, Port Road and Grange Road including provision for traffic to go under the railway only, 3 other underpasses, and numerous bridges (probably about 10 plus a few footbridges).

But this would mean that the road would be grade separated at the intersections only, ie entrance to premises would be at grade.

You say that as if it's a bad thing, but considering how many of the premises on South Road are businesses which rely on passing traffic, I think the cost of getting rid of the entrances would outweigh the benefits.

But the road will still be grade separated and thus free flowing. Though there would be access to and from premises and side roads, it would be for left turning traffic only - nobody will be able to cross the median at grade.

Government spin at its best. South Road will not be a 'free-flowing' expressway in its literal meaning.

Has anyone in the government claimed it will be an expressway?

If, and that's a very big if, the Government intends to follow through with its plans to 'transform' South Road, it will only be free-flowing through major intersections, as property and side street access is still permissable - even seen at the Gallipoli intersection, tramline overpass and also the proposed Superway.

On what part of the Superway will property and side street access be permissible?

[Paulns]

The best solution is to follow RAA's vision of a 6-8km tunnel.

Would likely be the most expensive project ever done in Adelaide though it will transform that deathtrap into a proper highway.

Couldn't agree more! It's high time the Federal Government stepped in here and recognised this as a major project for the state of South Australia and to fund this project. Adelaide's roads have fallen way behind that of the other major capital cities in Australia.

For those of you that haven't seen the RAA's vision, here's a the video. Note - This video doesn't include the currant Superway project, put its a good plan never the less.

http://www.youtube.com/user/sensational ... L6YZ1chzhY

[Aidan]

If there's only loose change from $1bn in building a viaduct from south of the PR expressway to north of Regency Road, then it's hard to imagine a free-flowing solution from Regency Road to Anzac Highway costing under $4bn bearing in mind more difficult (costly) conditions than north of Regency Road.

Even an upgrade to 6 lanes at grade would be seriously expensive (>$1bn ??) if the proposed upgrade of Great Eastern Highway (Perth) between Burswood and the airport is anything to go by.
http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Building ... s/GEH.aspx
This is estimated to cost $225m to do part of the project (2.6km), includes no grade seperations and is over easier conditions than South Road (Main Roads WA all ready owns some of the land required for the upgrade).
6 lanes from Regency Road with grade seperations (underpasses) at Regeny Road, Outer Harbour Rail, Port Road and Sir Donald Bradman Drive $1.5bn to $2bn ??

They're upgrading to 6 lanes by converting the existing 4 lanes to 3 lanes + shoulder, and adding another 3 lanes.

We could narrow the median (as right turn pockets would no longer be required) so widening would only require about 4m more - I'm not saying it would be cheap, but it would require significantly less land than the GEH did.

Also, does the expensive bit through Thebarton really need to be widened? Why not reroute the left lane onto Port Road and James Congdon Drive instead?

The best solution is to follow RAA's vision of a 6-8km tunnel.

Would likely be the most expensive project ever done in Adelaide though it will transform that deathtrap into a proper highway.

Calling it a deathtrap is a bit misleading - though there are a lot of accidents on it, it is the longest road in the metro area so it would be surprising if there weren't.

Couldn't agree more! It's high time the Federal Government stepped in here and recognised this as a major project for the state of South Australia and to fund this project. Adelaide's roads have fallen way behind that of the other major capital cities in Australia.

Adelaide's roads have been way behind the other major capital cities in Australia for decades. But a more recent and far bigger concern is that our railways have fallen way behind. They're far more deserving of multi billion dollar tunnels than South Road is.

For those of you that haven't seen the RAA's vision, here's a the video. Note - This video doesn't include the currant Superway project, put its a good plan never the less.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sensational ... L6YZ1chzhY

Silly video - turning South Road into an urban freeway (which will soon fill to capacity) at enormous cost, yet failing to grade separate the junction at the start of the Southern Expressway. I'm no fan of the state government, but their plans are far more sensible than those of the RAA!

[Paulns]

Silly video - turning South Road into an urban freeway (which will soon fill to capacity) at enormous cost, yet failing to grade separate the junction at the start of the Southern Expressway. I'm no fan of the state government, but their plans are far more sensible than those of the RAA!

Mate seriously are you going to disect every single second of that video????? For as start that video by the RAA was released before the South Road Superway and before the government released its plans for the duplication of the Southern Expressway. The whole point to of it is to make people think about what could be. Its in no way, shape or form the ACTUAL final plan...

Paulns wrote:
Couldn't agree more! It's high time the Federal Government stepped in here and recognised this as a major project for the state of South Australia and to fund this project. Adelaide's roads have fallen way behind that of the other major capital cities in Australia.

Adelaide's roads have been way behind the other major capital cities in Australia for decades. But a more recent and far bigger concern is that our railways have fallen way behind. They're far more deserving of multi billion dollar tunnels than South Road is.

They are upgrading the railways aren't they???? Isn't that the whole point to the governments plan to electrify the entire network, extend the the Noarlunga line, extend the tram line and purchase and or refurbish the trains??

http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/RR/ ... talisation

It clearly says that - "Over a ten year period, $2 billion will be invested to transform Adelaides network into a vibrant, state of the art and sustainable system, providing faster, cleaner, more frequent and efficient services for commuters".

[Aidan]

Silly video - turning South Road into an urban freeway (which will soon fill to capacity) at enormous cost, yet failing to grade separate the junction at the start of the Southern Expressway. I'm no fan of the state government, but their plans are far more sensible than those of the RAA!

Mate seriously are you going to disect every single second of that video????? For as start that video by the RAA was released before the South Road Superway and before the government released its plans for the duplication of the Southern Expressway. The whole point to of it is to make people think about what could be. Its in no way, shape or form the ACTUAL final plan...

Of course it's not, but retaining the traffic lights in the middle seems to rather defeat the whole point of it.

Paulns wrote:
Couldn't agree more! It's high time the Federal Government stepped in here and recognised this as a major project for the state of South Australia and to fund this project. Adelaide's roads have fallen way behind that of the other major capital cities in Australia.

Adelaide's roads have been way behind the other major capital cities in Australia for decades. But a more recent and far bigger concern is that our railways have fallen way behind. They're far more deserving of multi billion dollar tunnels than South Road is.

They are upgrading the railways aren't they???? Isn't that the whole point to the governments plan to electrify the entire network, extend the the Noarlunga line, extend the tram line and purchase and or refurbish the trains??

They are indeed upgrading the railways, but nowhere near as much as needed. The other cities have tunnels under the CBD enabling the trains to take the passengers where they want to go. Our trains won't attract many passengers until we do the same.

http://www.infrastructure.sa.gov.au/RR/ ... talisation
It clearly says that - "Over a ten year period, $2 billion will be invested to transform Adelaides network into a vibrant, state of the art and sustainable system, providing faster, cleaner, more frequent and efficient services for commuters".

The meaningless claim that it is vibrant proves that's just spin!

[muzzamo]

Couldn't agree more! It's high time the Federal Government stepped in here and recognised this as a major project for the state of South Australia and to fund this project. Adelaide's roads have fallen way behind that of the other major capital cities in Australia.

One word: Tolls. You can't build a road at this level of expense without sending a price signal to people, to basically separate the people who *need* to use the road (truckies, people with no other transport choice, etc) to people who *want* to use the road (driving into the CBD each day in their four wheel drives from aldinga)

[metro]

Tolls.

should stay in the eastern states, lets keep SA and WA toll free

the idea of having a toll to stop private cars from clogging up freight traffic never works very well anyways, traffic jams in Sydney and Melbourne still occur even with the tolls.

[Aidan]

Tolls.

should stay in the eastern states, lets keep SA and WA toll free

So you oppose building any roads that we can't afford without tolls? Why?

I can see why you wouldn't want tolls on existing roads - indeed that's one very good reason not to upgrade South Road to motorway standard. But what's wrong with tollways on new alignments?

the idea of having a toll to stop private cars from clogging up freight traffic never works very well anyways, traffic jams in Sydney and Melbourne still occur even with the tolls.

Because they're not setting the charges according to demand. They grossly overcharge on routes such as Sydney's Cross City Tunnel, and overcharge on more popular routes like the Lane Cove Tunnel.

[crawf]

The best solution is to follow RAA's vision of a 6-8km tunnel.

Would likely be the most expensive project ever done in Adelaide though it will transform that deathtrap into a proper highway.

Calling it a deathtrap is a bit misleading - though there are a lot of accidents on it, it is the longest road in the metro area so it would be surprising if there weren't.

I was more so talking about the narrow section between Port and Torrens Roads.

[JamesXander]

I cant say I've researched it that well, but it seems to be that alot of Toll roads recently have failed. People simply don't want to pay to drive on a road. There are the two key examples of the Rivercity express way in QLD which has lost hundreds of millions of dollars for investors, and the inner city Sydney tunnel which saw roads closed to funnel motorists into it, yet people avoided it like the plague, resulting in the owners selling it for way under the construction costs.


I think introducing a toll way into inner city adelaide would be an instant investment fail for any company, especially as we have never even had to pay for our roads physically.


We need to find other means of funding our road infrastructure.



answer- congestion tax...Watch this space in 20 years time

[Waewick]

I cannot see tolls ever working in Adelaide unless we are getting a massive population

i'm talking 3-4m.

If you want to get Cars off the road to unclog transport corridors given the passenger cars people a better way to get from point a to point b

or alternatively help people get there frieght from point A to point b without a truck....

[Aidan]

I cant say I've researched it that well, but it seems to be that alot of Toll roads recently have failed. People simply don't want to pay to drive on a road.

But nor do they want to be stuck in a traffic jam.

There are the two key examples of the Rivercity express way in QLD which has lost hundreds of millions of dollars for investors, and the inner city Sydney tunnel which saw roads closed to funnel motorists into it, yet people avoided it like the plague, resulting in the owners selling it for way under the construction costs.

As I said before, they set the toll rate too high for the Cross City Tunnel.

And while we're on the subject, I omitted something from that post. Tolls in other tunnels such as the Lane Cove Tunnel are too high at some times, but too low during peak times.

I think introducing a toll way into inner city adelaide would be an instant investment fail for any company, especially as we have never even had to pay for our roads physically.

Never? Then what's that hexagonal building in the middle of Highway 1 at Glen Osmond?

Many people would pay to use a tunnel from Glen Osmond to the City - it's just a case of how much. And I expect many would also pay to use a tunnel to the airport, as it would mean they wouldn't have to leave quite so early.

We need to find other means of funding our road infrastructure.
answer- congestion tax...Watch this space in 20 years time

You just said people don't want to pay to drive on a road. Now your answer is making them pay to drive on existing roads. Make your mind up!

[Omicron]

Toll roads =/= faster. Or less congested, for that matter.