COM: Glenelg Tramline Upgrade

[Ho Really]

What's wrong with a monorail? If we made a monorail like Sydney's we could connect all of Adelaide and O'connell street with an efficient service, I think it's an excellent fit for Adelaide...

There are plenty of things wrong with monorails.

1. Aesthetically (visual pollution).
2. Expenssive.
3. Accessibility.
4. Connectivity (network).

Cheers

[AG]

Monorails are not economical at all. The one in Sydney highlights exactly why monorails as a small and independent system don't work. They are expensive to build and operate and there's some difficulty in interchanging with other systems. May attract some tourists, but won't exactly serve any good use for the locals.

North Terrace to Waymouth Street takes more than 3-4 minutes to traverse, unless you ran the distance? Roughly double that and you're about right.

[Froggy]

Monorails are not economical at all. The one in Sydney highlights exactly why monorails as a small and independent system don't work. They are expensive to build and operate and there's some difficulty in interchanging with other systems. May attract some tourists, but won't exactly serve any good use for the locals.

North Terrace to Waymouth Street takes more than 3-4 minutes to traverse, unless you ran the distance? Roughly double that and you're about right.

No I walked and it's no way it takes 8 minutes to walk that far. I left my office at 1:45 got to my client at 1:55 who was down past topham mall on Waymouth and that's after looking for the building.

[AtD]

Froggy, by your logic no one would use the 99B. I suggest you try to get a seat on one at peak hour. As already mentioned, the 99B is sardines express, it is almost always packed to capacity in it's run between the rail station and Victoria Square. No, it's not a long distance, but it's clearly a popular service. So why aren't all these people walking then?

A three minute walk to Waymouth Street? I call bullshit. According to this study, the average walking speed for pedestrians under 65 is approximately 4.1 feet per second, which equates to 75 meters per minute or 4.5km/h. According to UBD on Disk, the distance from Waymouth to North Tce is approximately 500m. So, for the average person, walking in a straight line and getting no red lights at all the trip would take 6.6 minutes.

What I don't understand is you're passionately against this small tram line extension but you'd love to see a monorail, a major project that would cost the state a hundred times the cost of this project; it'd need an entirely new corridor, new vehicles and elevated tracks. All the arguments you've used against the tram would apply against it ten times greater. It would truly be a useless project by a politician wanting to leave a stamp on the city.

Or do you just not like it because it's an ALP government doing it?

Tom and the other person who said I clearly get my facts from the advertiser. The only paper I buy is the Sunday Mail

Gold!

ANYWAY, North Terrace was reduced to one lane each direction tonight for works, at about 6.30pm. No traffic dramas because the city is dead at that time of night anyway. Nothing photo-worthy at this stage, but I can't wait for trackwork to begin!

[Tom]

Tom and the other person who said I clearly get my facts from the advertiser. The only paper I buy is the Sunday Mail

My GOD Sir, that is even worse...

[crawf]

LOL

[Froggy]

Froggy, by your logic no one would use the 99B. I suggest you try to get a seat on one at peak hour. As already mentioned, the 99B is sardines express, it is almost always packed to capacity in it's run between the rail station and Victoria Square. No, it's not a long distance, but it's clearly a popular service. So why aren't all these people walking then?

What cracks me up about the 99b is that so many people spend the time standing and waiting for it then it would of taken them to walk the small distance anyway. There's still not enough people that catch that to warrant the tram...

A three minute walk to Waymouth Street? I call bullshit. According to this study, the average walking speed for pedestrians under 65 is approximately 4.1 feet per second, which equates to 75 meters per minute or 4.5km/h. According to UBD on Disk, the distance from Waymouth to North Tce is approximately 500m. So, for the average person, walking in a straight line and getting no red lights at all the trip would take 6.6 minutes.

Hey who knows, I am a quick walker though and I was in a rush, my point is that it was not a huge deal to get from a to b walking along there and that the tram would not of helped. Even by your times if the tram was there I'd still have to wait for it, get on it, get off etc, it'd take longer anyway.

What I don't understand is you're passionately against this small tram line extension but you'd love to see a monorail, a major project that would cost the state a hundred times the cost of this project; it'd need an entirely new corridor, new vehicles and elevated tracks. All the arguments you've used against the tram would apply against it ten times greater. It would truly be a useless project by a politician wanting to leave a stamp on the city.

It is a useless project, we now have the tramline extension to nowhere to go with the one way freeway. At least going to O'connell street it made sense, everyone would of been on it to get to Adelaide oval and it would open up that nice part of the city, at night time it's a pain in the arse after having a beer down there to get back into town to continue on or get the train etc.

Or do you just not like it because it's an ALP government doing it?

Nope if liberal were this stupid I'd be shitty to.

Tom and the other person who said I clearly get my facts from the advertiser. The only paper I buy is the Sunday Mail

Gold!

Nice selective quoting ahem:

The only paper I buy is the Sunday Mail for the TV guide

ANYWAY, North Terrace was reduced to one lane each direction tonight for works, at about 6.30pm. No traffic dramas because the city is dead at that time of night anyway. Nothing photo-worthy at this stage, but I can't wait for trackwork to begin!

Yes it was down to one lane at night and yes it did effect the traffic, for those of us who drove through it and saw two near misses. The damn morons drive up the inside lane so as everyone is merging in true adelaide fashion they think it's not fair and won't let anyone in.

[AtD]

I think you need to get a bit of context on the actual size of this. You're comparing it to the Southern Expressway, which cost several hundreds of millions. This isn't a big project, it's only made big by the politics that has surrounded it. $31m is about the average annual turn-over of a Woolworth Supermarket.

Think of it as a giant travelator linking the city. Sure, you could walk it yourself, but it's nice to not have to.

Yes it was down to one lane at night and yes it did effect the traffic, for those of us who drove through it and saw two near misses. The damn morons drive up the inside lane so as everyone is merging in true adelaide fashion they think it's not fair and won't let anyone in.

Now you're being negative for the sake of being negative.

[Tyler_Durden]

I'd like to know exactly how this crappy 1.6km extension is meant to bring more people into the city? I am assuming that none of you have to drive through that area in the mornings because I can tell you right now with a tram line through the middle it'll make it one frustrating journey.

Do you not see the irony of this comment? A tram carries up to, what, 80-100 people? A car carries up to 4, but in reality that number is 1 or 2.

To transport the same number of people as one tram does down the middle of King William Street you would need 40 plus cars.

Think about that and then think about what the real is the real cause of congestion.

I suspect the real reason some people are against the trams is due to their selfish attitude and the belief that their environmentally unfriendly petrol guzzlers deserve an uninterrupted right of way through the middle of the city over every other mode of transport. Thankfully the government is giving no credence to this stupidity.

By the way work officially started on the project overnight.

So what you are saying that if you go to work and you go up north terrace and then along king william street, you need to find someway to get to the end of north terrace so you can get on the tram and then go up and along king william street so you can get off the tram and ten find the rest of your way to the office... do you now see how stupid your comment is. People driving in to work are not going to suddenly use the tram when the 1km is a small fraction of their journey so your whole analogy is just plain stupid.

Clearly I said nothing of the sort. Are you going to discuss this intelligently or not?

Of course people who drive into work are not going to use the tram. The tram is catering for people who don't bring their cars into the city.

I am saying that public transport is more efficient than car travel because it carries far more people. And therefore public transport should always have right of way over cars. It happens all over the world. It happens all over Adelaide too with bus lanes. If drivers don't like it, then leave the car at home or park it at one of the transport hubs.

Complaining about traffic disruptions caused to cars by public transport lines is plain stupid. Do you not see that?

[Froggy]

Do you not see the irony of this comment? A tram carries up to, what, 80-100 people? A car carries up to 4, but in reality that number is 1 or 2.

To transport the same number of people as one tram does down the middle of King William Street you would need 40 plus cars.

Think about that and then think about what the real is the real cause of congestion.

I suspect the real reason some people are against the trams is due to their selfish attitude and the belief that their environmentally unfriendly petrol guzzlers deserve an uninterrupted right of way through the middle of the city over every other mode of transport. Thankfully the government is giving no credence to this stupidity.

By the way work officially started on the project overnight.

So what you are saying that if you go to work and you go up north terrace and then along king william street, you need to find someway to get to the end of north terrace so you can get on the tram and then go up and along king william street so you can get off the tram and ten find the rest of your way to the office... do you now see how stupid your comment is. People driving in to work are not going to suddenly use the tram when the 1km is a small fraction of their journey so your whole analogy is just plain stupid.

Clearly I said nothing of the sort. Are you going to discuss this intelligently or not?

Of course people who drive into work are not going to use the tram. The tram is catering for people who don't bring their cars into the city.

I am saying that public transport is more efficient than car travel because it carries far more people. And therefore public transport should always have right of way over cars. It happens all over the world. It happens all over Adelaide too with bus lanes. If drivers don't like it, then leave the car at home or park it at one of the transport hubs.

Complaining about traffic disruptions caused to cars by public transport lines is plain stupid. Do you not see that?

No it's not plain stupid when the public transport and the route are a stupid idea. If you haven't noticed most people prefer private to public, especially in a city the size of Adelaide.

[Froggy]

I think you need to get a bit of context on the actual size of this. You're comparing it to the Southern Expressway, which cost several hundreds of millions. This isn't a big project, it's only made big by the politics that has surrounded it. $31m is about the average annual turn-over of a Woolworth Supermarket.

Think of it as a giant travelator linking the city. Sure, you could walk it yourself, but it's nice to not have to.

Yes it was down to one lane at night and yes it did effect the traffic, for those of us who drove through it and saw two near misses. The damn morons drive up the inside lane so as everyone is merging in true adelaide fashion they think it's not fair and won't let anyone in.

Now you're being negative for the sake of being negative.

We'll see when it happens but usually a travellator doesn't screw up travel for lots of people.

I was having a dig at how stupid Adelaide drivers are some times. We just don't give way or drive with any courtesy. In a city like ours I see so much stupid stuff caused for no reason on north terrace when someone should just let someone in the traffic etc (anyway off topic).

[crawf]

Froggy you need to put up and shut up. The tram extension project has already began, so give it up and focus on something more important than a fringing $31m 1.6km tramline extension.

Oh and your statement that the tramline is going nowhere is pathetic (like most of your comments). The tramline will be going straight through the central part of the CBD to one of Adelaides biggest universites (UniSA) which is near TAFESA Adelaide City and Adelaide Centre For The Arts. The new tramline will also pass Rundle Mall, Railway Station/Skycity Casino, City hotels and the Convention Centre.

[Will409]

First of all, I am new here but Howie and AtD would have seen me around the place (look at the last 3 digits of my username).

I would just like to put in my 2 cents about the project. Coming from the northern suburbs (Parafield Gardens), a trip to Glenelg is a bit of a treat you could say. Even though a lot of my mates have got their P's, many of us still prefer to take public transport to Glenelg. We all take the train to the City and then the tram to Glenelg. I have been talking to my mates about the extension a bit and about 65-75% support the project. We all use the Beeline to get to Vic Square from the railway station to save some time. However, it is annoying that we have to change froma train to a bus at one end and just over 1km later, we have to change again to the tram.

However, with the extension, we can just hop on a tram at the railway station and not have to worry about another change to Glenelg. An almost seamless change. We won't have to be thrown around on the bus either since we don't need to have a sudden change of lanes or braking. You still got moved around a bit on the tram but it isn't anywhere near as bad as it is on the Beeline. The bus is popular but is struggling with the load at peak times. You can barely move. It is really like a sardine can. The tram will be free like the bus but also bigger so it can cope with the load.

Froggy, there are people who will use the tram like myself and other students. It is easier to take a train or bus from the outer suburbs to the city and then the tram to Glenelg (or other places en route). It is cheaper for a start and we don't need to pay for fuel and you can talk to your mates without being distracted from any driving responsibilities. Also, I have both walked and taken the Beeline through the city. I generally find that I may leave the railway station before the Beeline but I am always beaten to Vic Square by the bus by about Grenfell Street. People will use it because it is quicker then walking. Glenelg is a popular destination and the extension will allow for a near seamless connection from the station to Glenelg.

My few bobs.

[Froggy]

Froggy you need to put up and shut up. The tram extension project has already began, so give it up and focus on something more important than a fringing $31m 1.6km tramline extension.

Oh and your statement that the tramline is going nowhere is pathetic (like most of your comments). The tramline will be going straight through the central part of the CBD to one of Adelaides biggest universites (UniSA) which is near TAFESA Adelaide City and Adelaide Centre For The Arts. The new tramline will also pass Rundle Mall, Railway Station/Skycity Casino, City hotels and the Convention Centre.

Put up or shut up about what? Do you usually use statements that are going no where with no relevance?

It IS going no where, no one who hasn't caught the tram before it has gotten to town is going to catch it to go to the railway station or Rundle mall. You obviously are delirious about where people go in the city.

[Will409]

You obviously are delirious about where people go in the city.

Looks like you are as well.

I have already said that people will use the tram FROM the railway station and will use it to either Rundle Mall or Glenelg. People already use the Beeline for the same reason and you also have to deal with the return flow as well. People on the Glenelg line who also need to make a connection as well with a train or to go to Rundle Mall.

Can I ask you Froggy, have you ever used public transport? If you say yes, how many years ago? With TransAdelaide, the STA or even the SAR/MTT? It honestly sounds as if you have no clue what you are going on about. People will use public transport in a city like Adelaide if it is available.