News & Discussion: Adelaide City Council

[Pikey]

Those sites didn't happen to be in the immediate vicinity of one of the CBD's largest bus stop locations....

It's a temporary fence during the HS redevelopment. Relax people

[Reb-L]

Fences are a good idea - what's the use of wasting white paint on crossings if people can walk anywhere?

[crawf]

Those sites didn't happen to be in the immediate vicinity of one of the CBD's largest bus stop locations....

Not to mention the pathway along King William Street is much wider, compared to Grenfell Street.

[AtD]

Fences are a good idea - what's the use of wasting white paint on crossings if people can walk anywhere?

I disagree - fences do not improve pedestrian safety. For example, the City of Westminster found that the extensive railings at Oxford Circus did not contain pedestrians; they simply crossed at angles and therefore spent more time walking on the road. Drivers on the other hand expected no pedestrians because the road was fenced off. This is obviously a bad outcome for both safety and traffic flow.

The local council realised you can't force people to walk a longer distance - too many just take a shortcut. People are not willing to make a large detour. So as a solution, they redesigned the area, removing all fences, and allowing for people's natural desire to walk the shortest possible path.

Before: Note the people walking against the desing of the intersection in the bottom left and bottom right.


After: The path people wish to take is considered in the design.


Obviously in this instance the fence is a lot smaller, but the same principle applies. There will be pedestrians who spend more time on the road as they walk around the fence. You may think that’s their own fault and you shouldn’t care about their stupid choices - but it still impacts traffic flow.

I'm not saying people should be encouraged to cross in an unsafe way. I'm saying people will cross in an unsafe way no matter how hard you try to stop them.

[[Shuz]]

Personally I think the scramble crossings that we have in Adelaide, at the Rundle, Pultney, and Pirie Street intersections have worked wonders for pedestrian amenity and movement and should defintely be enforced a lot more widespread throughout the city.

[mattblack]

Not only have they taken away fencing around the intersection but also removed a lane of traffic on Oxford St through the intersection. This vastly improving the ammenity for pedestrians, especially around the tube stop entrances and they also reduced the size of the traffic islands to prevent people from crowding onto them. Ive got to say that that second picture, although a vast improvement, is on of the quietest times I have seen Oxford St. Try walking down there before xmas and it is a sea of humanity.

[Vee]

I agree with Brando, that the fence in Grenfell St is most likely to be a safety measure associated with the construction work associated with Harris Scarfe. It does not do much for the streetscape and I would not like to see too many of these on city streets but I guess safety comes first during this busy construction period, especially when there are so many bus stops in the street.

I draw a distinction with a potential safety fence for school children in a designated school safety zone in the city.

I would like to ask David if he cares to comment on the reason for the hugely extended 25 km/hr 'when children crossing safety zone' on South Terrace in the vicinity of Pulteney Grammar, where a pedestrian overpass already exists and a push button pedestrian crossing is in the near vicinity. Perhaps a safety fence here and an expectation to use the overpass could reduce the length of this zone. Or create an actual visible crossing with no parking on the approaches? Read more.

And any insights on the rationale for, conditions of use and positioning of the single asphalt tennis court and fence recently constructed opposite the College?

[Prince George]

If it's a safety measure, why did they not use temporary fencing / barriers as they have on other projects? The King William Street repaving, for example.

[david]

Thanks for the question about the 25k zone on South Tce; I will ahve to go back through my records to try to find the answer. In effect the courts on South Tce are being upgraded by Pulteney to provide all-weather facilities for basketball with end-stop fencing only and public access at all times when the school is not using them. There will be improved landscaping too. But I will have to find out about the speed zones.

Re the fencing in Grenfell Street I happen to think it is very intrusive and certainly not - by definition - pedestrian-friendly. As a Councillor I have not been briefed about the fence and I am not sure who installed it but I suspect it has to do with the impending work on the Harris Scarfe redevelopment which is going to see the wilfull destruction of the Rundle Mall facade of Harris Scarfe and the wonderful brick warehouses in Francis St.

The images that I have seen for the upgrading of Grenfell/Currie St to be a priority bus corridor all show no increase in road widths and in fact in many locations footpaths were widened to better deal with people queuing for and alighting from buses. With the O'Bahn project cancelled I am not sure when this project may proceed.

Quoted below is an article I saw recently from UK's CABE (now defunct)

CLEAR CLUTTER TO DELIVER PEOPLE-FRIENDLY STREETS

"The new UK government wants councils to listen to local people and cut unnecessary signs, bollards and guardrails from streets. Studies have shown that excessive clutter can damage a street’s character and lead to confusion among road users.

UK research studies show that up to 70% of street furniture is redundant. Signs are often duplicated and fears over safety have sometimes led to a heavy-handed approach.

When it comes to streets, less is indeed more. Before adding to a street, councils need to ask: is it really necessary?" The Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment.

I think the UK findings are equally applicable in South Australia and it is time for councils to listen to what communities want. If a pole or sign is required, then creative thinking is needed about how it can be combined with something else or made to serve multiple functions

David
DLM

[AtD]

Thanks for your answers David!

[SRW]

Thanks David for your responses. I couldn't agree more with the CABE article.

[david]

I had a look at the 25k speed zone on South Terrace at Pulteney Grammar. I didn't think it had been extended recently and although there is the pedestrian overpass for students going to use the Park Lands I think the speed zone is for the safety of kids being dropped off and picked up on the south side of the road and then crossing to the school.

This is a popular spot for Toorak Tanks to drop off their little darlings to go to school - not realising that they are a major cause of risk for unsighted kids crossing the road.

(I think some of my biasses may be showing through on this subject!)

David
DLM

[metro]

This is a popular spot for Toorak Tanks to drop off their little darlings to go to school - not realising that they are a major cause of risk for unsighted kids crossing the road

i've seen parents in their 4WDs double and triple parking on south terrace, holding up traffic while they both drop off their kids and have a chat through the window to another parent

meanwhile traffic is getting held up.. perhaps the police could station themselves down in front of Pulteney for a few mornings and afternoons and catch these people, give them a big fine for the first time and then give them an even bigger fine and take their licence if they do it again

[[Shuz]]

Lol, David - I love it when senior figures like yourselves display a sense of humor. Toorak Tanks is probably the best thing I've heard to label the Eastern residents.

So true, and cheesy.

[iTouch]

This is a popular spot for Toorak Tanks to drop off their little darlings to go to school - not realising that they are a major cause of risk for unsighted kids crossing the road

Nicely done

i've seen parents in their 4WDs double and triple parking on south terrace, holding up traffic while they both drop off their kids and have a chat through the window to another paren

This happened to me today.