[COM] Goodwood Junction Rail Underpass | $110m

[ml69]

Agree with Aidan and AtD. What a waste of money! I guess it was worth getting it costed to look at the feasibility, but $418M could certain pay for some pretty significant infrastructure that would deliver more widespread benefits to the community. Eg:

- CBD tram loop - North Tce > Morphett St > Gouger/Angas St > Frome or Hutt St
- 1km South Rd tunnel under Port Rd and railway line
- 1km South Rd tunnel bypassing 5 traffic lights at Edwardstown

[iTouch]

Oh so Bowden gets a subway but not Adelaide city thats so gay.

[notmichaeljfox]

This is far too expensive for 1km of rail line - $400 000 per metre!

Build a bridge and get over this proposal!

[metro]

I've done a bit of reading on other underground lines built recently in Australia, and i'm not sure about the cost of $418m.

Most other underground projects in Australia come in at about $100m per km and they're deep bored tunnels, so i'm wondering what the other $300+m is paying for

Dont get me wrong, i think the idea of a new underground station at Bowden is great but not at the cost of around 1/3 of the Epping-Chatswood Line in Sydney

[iTouch]

Most other underground projects in Australia come in at about $100m per km and they're deep bored tunnels, so i'm wondering what the other $300+m is paying for

Adelaidenow commentator: Rann and his goon's
I know it sounds a bit excessive for a station to be 300m but maybe??

[koalaboy]

Seems like an absolute waste of money to be. Why not a rail viaduct? They are building a 1km bridge over the Onkaparinga River for the Seaford extension for about 1/4 the price. Achieves the exact same outcome. I would like to see the planning report that justifies the added expense of a tunnel. Underground stations are generally less safe than elevated stations. Assuming a viaduct is half the price, the tunnel needs to provide at least $200M in property uplift over and above the viaduct option, which would never happen. Very few properties within the TOD would be negatively affected by a viaduct; most would not be anywhere near the line because it is on the fringe of the TOD.

A viaduct would also help Park Tce, which is an absolute disaster zone because of the rail. It's not only Park Tce that is affected either, Port Rd (2nd busiest road in Adelaide) queues back for a couple of km becasue of it.

This tunnel option stinks. This money would be better spent towards tunnelling under the city to link the Gawler and Noarlunga lines together. Like other people have said, the tunnel will not improve the rail travel time or the patronage, so what are the benefits (apart from freight train delays and traffic delays)? A tunnel under the city would expose more of the city to train access instead of having the only city station in one corner of the city. This gov loves to waste money on their TODS. If it is so good let the developers pay for it.

[Nathan]

Seems like an absolute waste of money to be. Why not a rail viaduct? They are building a 1km bridge over the Onkaparinga River for the Seaford extension for about 1/4 the price. Achieves the exact same outcome. I would like to see the planning report that justifies the added expense of a tunnel. Underground stations are generally less safe than elevated stations. Assuming a viaduct is half the price, the tunnel needs to provide at least $200M in property uplift over and above the viaduct option, which would never happen. Very few properties within the TOD would be negatively affected by a viaduct; most would not be anywhere near the line because it is on the fringe of the TOD.

A viaduct would also help Park Tce, which is an absolute disaster zone because of the rail. It's not only Park Tce that is affected either, Port Rd (2nd busiest road in Adelaide) queues back for a couple of km becasue of it.

This tunnel option stinks. This money would be better spent towards tunnelling under the city to link the Gawler and Noarlunga lines together. Like other people have said, the tunnel will not improve the rail travel time or the patronage, so what are the benefits (apart from freight train delays and traffic delays)? A tunnel under the city would expose more of the city to train access instead of having the only city station in one corner of the city. This gov loves to waste money on their TODS. If it is so good let the developers pay for it.

Whoa there. The government hasn't put any money towards this yet, and have said it would require federal input for it to happen. And how are they wasting money on TODs? This is technically the first - and developers will be paying for it eventually (The government's role is in managing and masterplanning the area, each stage will be then sold to developers to do their thing following the masterplan).

Can I ask what you think linking the Gawler and Noarlunga lines would achieve? I really can't see there being much demand for anyone to keep on travelling past the city.

[fishinajar]

Can I ask what you think linking the Gawler and Noarlunga lines would achieve? I really can't see there being much demand for anyone to keep on travelling past the city.

koalaboy wants an underground line under the city with a few stations. Don't we all? Such a project would be great, would not solve the port/park tce problem, and not to mention would cost a LOT more.

[fabricator]

I've done a bit of reading on other underground lines built recently in Australia, and i'm not sure about the cost of $418m.

Most other underground projects in Australia come in at about $100m per km and they're deep bored tunnels, so i'm wondering what the other $300+m is paying for

Dont get me wrong, i think the idea of a new underground station at Bowden is great but not at the cost of around 1/3 of the Epping-Chatswood Line in Sydney

I gets worse, it is not a tunnel but a cut and cover, which is $30m a km. I know digging under the ARTC main line and Park Terrace is going to add to the cost, not to mention the underground station. But 10 times the cost

[Aidan]

I gets worse, it is not a tunnel but a cut and cover, which is $30m a km. I know digging under the ARTC main line and Park Terrace is going to add to the cost, not to mention the underground station. But 10 times the cost

Just a thought: Could the Messenger have omitted a decimal point?

$41.8m is a much more sensible price considering the amount of work that needs doing, though IMO it's still on the high side compared to the benefits.

[koalaboy]

I know it's not funded, but seriously...$400M for the Outer Harbour Line. Who would even announce that as a feasable option? It's no wonder the article showed comparisons of what else you could do with the same money. That is exactly what I am thinking, money of that magnitude is better spent elsewhere.

Aidan, the connection of the Gawler and Noarlunga lines was more to do with the installation of more "city" stops that service the entire city. I wouldn't think there would be a big demand between the two lines either.

I think the decimal is in the right spot. It's the proposed expenditure that is in the wrong location.

TODs have failed in many countries. The place needs to have more that mass transit to make it a TOD, it needs a vibe. It needs to be trendy. It needs to have a demand for higher density, which Adelaide doesn't have. People wanting that sort of lifestyle can already find plenty of spare apartments in the CBD, the only true TOD in SA. With all the spare land in the CBD the developers have already said that they are not particularly interested. Mawson was a failed TOD, they built a car park around the interchange instead of the suburb.

[Aidan]

Whoa there. The government hasn't put any money towards this yet, and have said it would require federal input for it to happen.

The government should not be urging the Federal government to waste money on this kind of unnecessary extravagant project when urgently needed things like a rail tunnel under the City remain unbuilt. And the Federal government won't supply the money if they think it isn't being spent efficiently - that's why they cancelled their funding for the City busway.

And how are they wasting money on TODs? This is technically the first - and developers will be paying for it eventually (The government's role is in managing and masterplanning the area, each stage will be then sold to developers to do their thing following the masterplan).

Then the government should sell it in the most profitable way.

Can I ask what you think linking the Gawler and Noarlunga lines would achieve? I really can't see there being much demand for anyone to keep on travelling past the city.

You only have to look at the roads that go beyond the City to see there's tremendous demand. Not everyone works in an office, and because the port is in the north, most of our manufacturers of high value goods are also located in the northern suburbs. There's also significant employment in Salisbury, Elizabeth and Mawson Lakes, which also has students commuting to it (I commuted there by train from Hallett Cove for 4 years, but the connection at Adelaide station is so bad that I often caught the bus from the City to Mawson Lakes). And while there's a lot more employment in the northern suburbs than the southern suburbs, there are also significant destinations along the Noarlunga and Tonsley lines.

But koalaboy's perception is correct: most of the people who would benefit are the ones going into the City, because our single station doesn't serve the City very well. Consider the journey from Brighton to Victoria Square: the train takes you right past the City and drops you on the far side, where you have the option of a long walk or waiting for a slow overcrowded tram. A tunnel taking the train straight to Victoria Square would save at least ten minutes, and may even halve the journey time.

And with more direct services, there will be a big modal shift. A few years ago I calculated the rise in ridership that would result from more stations giving more of the City the rail modal share that the parts near Adelaide station currently have. It was nearly a third (and higher on the Noarlunga Line). And more passengers taking the train means less congestion on the roads.

[Hooligan]

When will you people learn? Aidan is ALWAYS right.

No need to debate with the master debater.

[jase111]

http://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov. ... rities.pdf


On the above website is a project for 420 million dollars that includes good wood and torrens junction
And park terrace as a under pass and the Bowden station.

[Westside]

http://www.infrastructureaustralia.gov. ... rities.pdf


On the above website is a project for 420 million dollars that includes good wood and torrens junction
And park terrace as a under pass and the Bowden station.

Exactly, $420 million for the two projects, the crossovers between the interstate line and both the Noarlunga and Outer Harbor line. Doubling the cost of one for little extra gain and not delivering on the other is not the way to do it. Yes, the Park Tce intersection is dangerous and in need of grade separating, but the rest isn't. An underpass/overpass would do the trick.

Surely now with improved building methods, they can just construct their high-rise buildings directly above the rail line and leave the line where it is. Same effect and it's the developers who will have to pay any additional costs as they'll be the one's seeing the benefits (higher property values from counteracting landscape blight, noise etc)