News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Buses

[Omicron]

My Mum often catches the O-Bahn from Banksia Park into the City for work. The other day she was waiting at a bus stop in Grenfell Street for the return trip when the 542 arrived. The bus driver opened the doors and yelled out that he would be taking North East Road as this bus was not fitted with guide wheels (as he pointed down toward the front of the bus) and could not go on the O-Bahn track! He said the next bus would be along in 15 minutes.

Oh my lord. What a mess. I feel sorry for the Adelaide Metro staff who are most likely copping a great deal of anger from the public for circumstances out of their control. The knowledgeable drivers, too (not the rubbish ones) - can you imagine being told at the start of your shift 'Now, you start with route 542 down the O-bahn, but we don't have any buses left that can handle the track, so you can just amble up to every stop and tell everyone the bus won't really be following any of the route at all'? How ridiculous.

[bay transit]

Read elsewhere that Transfield's Morphettville Depot number is 83776400. I guess if you have a concern or problem about a particular service or another problem then this is the number to contact them on.Also if you know someone with a problem with Transfield services get them to ring this number and report it-it is better to do this than ring Adelaide Metro who will probably do nothing !

[DM8]

My Mum often catches the O-Bahn from Banksia Park into the City for work. The other day she was waiting at a bus stop in Grenfell Street for the return trip when the 542 arrived. The bus driver opened the doors and yelled out that he would be taking North East Road as this bus was not fitted with guide wheels (as he pointed down toward the front of the bus) and could not go on the O-Bahn track! He said the next bus would be along in 15 minutes.

Not a lone occurrence - happened yesterday when 3 545X's pulled up in a row, the second having no o-bahn guide wheels. About half a dozen people got on, then promptly got off again!

BTW.... my Mum, who hates driving and has relied on public transport since 1980, is now thinking about getting a car. It's not a service anymore, it is an imposition.

Pat Conlon's legacy

[rubberman]

BTW.... my Mum, who hates driving and has relied on public transport since 1980, is now thinking about getting a car. It's not a service anymore, it is an imposition.

Pat Conlon's legacy

I wish it were that simple. However, this has been brewing for some time.

Over the past twenty years, governments of both colours have been getting rid of experienced public servants and replacing them with outsourced companies. Those thus outsourced have generally gone into those outsourced companies, but are now retiring.

As the expertise goes out the door, there is no one left with expertise in government to replace them, and the private companies have not bothered to train up the necessary expertise. There are now 'managers' everywhere, but rapidly decreasing numbers of people who can step in and rectify stuff ups as they occur.

This latest one occurred on Pat Conlon's watch for sure, but he inherited the system where in house expertise was not only despised, but actively removed.

As a couple of examples of political bipartisanship in this I give exhibit A. When the contract to maintain and operate Adelaide's metro water and sewer systems was undertaken in the 90s by the Liberals, this $1.5Bn contract was stuffed up at tender stage. The Auditor General and all had to be called in - SA was made to look like amateur hour in several of the financial journals of the day. Liberals mate. Then a few years ago, we had a shortage of trams, so guess what? We bought six Citadis cars which are basically tarted up single truck cars - a configuration that was obsolete a century before!

The situation is that as a purchaser of goods and services, the SA Government now does not even know how much it does not know. Both political parties have contributed to this most enthusiastically, and guess what? Even if the mainstream begins to acknowledge this, it will take a generation of training of engineers, transport planners, etc to get back to where we were in 1990. In the mean time, get used to this sort of thing. Either, you will get these stuff ups from time to time, or you will pay through the nose for services from people who know that the State Government is over a barrel and really has no in-house expertise to evaluate or manage major contracts. The scary thing is that since this managerialism and outsourcing has been happening elsewhere in the world, there is a world wide shortage of professionals in large swathes of areas of activity such as transport, water supply, highways, and railways. So, even if the State Government woke up to the shortages, and tried to go out and pay and recruit, it is competing with gulf states, mining companies and China and India. So good luck.

Unfortunately, it is going to get much worse before this Government or the Opposition face up to the fact that their policies have made us vulnerable to this sort of occurrence.

Just wait for the power outages...despite the elevated prices (and the price of carbon is nil nix nothing in comparison to the infrastructure deficit costs there).

[Vee]

Just when you thought......

Wheel falls off Transfield bus
The Advertiser
October 29, 2011

THE wheels are literally falling off the buses for carrier Transfield.

One of its articulated buses lost a rear wheel, which then crashed into a car at Plympton yesterday. No one was injured in the incident.
Two passengers were on the bus at the time. They returned to the bus stop and caught the next bus.

Transfield spokesman David Jamieson said one of the articulated buses it inherited as part of the transition was pulling away from a bus stop at low speed when a rear wheel came off.

"We should emphasise that we take the safety of the travelling public, other road users and our drivers seriously, accordingly we're now conducting a full investigation," he said.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 6179970762

[monotonehell]

I would like this published on the front page. Hell I'd like this published in all media. It's been going on for years, and not just in government, "everyone" could see what its effects would be, except apparently managers, shareholders etc. It's just cynical short term book balancing, pushing the costs from today's ledgers onto tomorrow's generation. Meanwhile governments, business and society in general crumbles.

I wish it were that simple. However, this has been brewing for some time.

Over the past twenty years, governments of both colours have been getting rid of experienced public servants and replacing them with outsourced companies. Those thus outsourced have generally gone into those outsourced companies, but are now retiring.

As the expertise goes out the door, there is no one left with expertise in government to replace them, and the private companies have not bothered to train up the necessary expertise. There are now 'managers' everywhere, but rapidly decreasing numbers of people who can step in and rectify stuff ups as they occur.

This latest one occurred on Pat Conlon's watch for sure, but he inherited the system where in house expertise was not only despised, but actively removed.

As a couple of examples of political bipartisanship in this I give exhibit A. When the contract to maintain and operate Adelaide's metro water and sewer systems was undertaken in the 90s by the Liberals, this $1.5Bn contract was stuffed up at tender stage. The Auditor General and all had to be called in - SA was made to look like amateur hour in several of the financial journals of the day. Liberals mate. Then a few years ago, we had a shortage of trams, so guess what? We bought six Citadis cars which are basically tarted up single truck cars - a configuration that was obsolete a century before!

The situation is that as a purchaser of goods and services, the SA Government now does not even know how much it does not know. Both political parties have contributed to this most enthusiastically, and guess what? Even if the mainstream begins to acknowledge this, it will take a generation of training of engineers, transport planners, etc to get back to where we were in 1990. In the mean time, get used to this sort of thing. Either, you will get these stuff ups from time to time, or you will pay through the nose for services from people who know that the State Government is over a barrel and really has no in-house expertise to evaluate or manage major contracts. The scary thing is that since this managerialism and outsourcing has been happening elsewhere in the world, there is a world wide shortage of professionals in large swathes of areas of activity such as transport, water supply, highways, and railways. So, even if the State Government woke up to the shortages, and tried to go out and pay and recruit, it is competing with gulf states, mining companies and China and India. So good luck.

Unfortunately, it is going to get much worse before this Government or the Opposition face up to the fact that their policies have made us vulnerable to this sort of occurrence.

Just wait for the power outages...despite the elevated prices (and the price of carbon is nil nix nothing in comparison to the infrastructure deficit costs there).

[DM8]

Agree wholeheartedly with rubberman, no doubt it's happening everywhere! My Dad worked at what are now DTEI customer service centres for the whole of his life, and it was depressing to see the department just go downhill, the disbanding of the Highways Department and outsourcing of all expertise. What's more, the managers they got in starting from about the mid 80's seldom knew little more than how to "wow" job interviewers, nothing about how to actually do the job.

This latest move occurred under Pat Conlon's watch, hence my comment - it is indeed his last fuckup as the minister responsible. Credit where credit is due, the service we had before from Torrens Transit wasn't too bad (and certainly better than Serco). But Pat Conlon himself, even worse than his predecessor Diana Laidlaw (and that's saying something), just oozes incompetence, signing ministerial documents without even reading them, throwing taxpayer dollars down the drain to companies for work they never did, etc etc etc.

[Waewick]

large swathes of areas of activity such as transport, water supply, highways, and railways. So, even if the State Government

I am curious to know what particular jobs or skills we are talking about?

[duke]

I waited 45 mins for a bus at Vic Square to go home.
The M44, G40 and 548 are all supposed to stop at Vic Square every 15 minutes. I should have seen lots of buses.
One finally arrived, it was packed, it was a small bus.
It stopped at two more stops on King William before driving past every stop after as it was full.
I wonder how long the people on other stops ended up having to wait for.

On Friday last week I waited ages for any bus to arrive. Finally I got on one, I think it was the G40. It was a tiny bus, and of course packed with people.
Just as we all finish squeezing in, I see a bus pull out from behind us and pass us. It was a 548, stretch bus, with nearly every seat empty. wtf?!

The buses from TTP to the city have been not arriving also, such as the M44. The M44X, G40 and 548 arrive often to find they are small buses already packed with about twice as many people trying to get on than can fit.

This morning I caught a bus which actually arrived on time. I was also excited to see it was one of the new ones. It smelled new, it looked clean and the seats were hard.
As we took off I noticed it didn't sound any different from the other newer ones, then we went over a bump. It sounded like the back wheels were rubbing against the wheel arch.
Every bump, both wheels would make a grinding sound like you would expect from tread rubbing on the wheel arch.
When we turned corners, one way only one would grind, the other way, the other would grind. once again,, wtf?

[rubberman]

large swathes of areas of activity such as transport, water supply, highways, and railways. So, even if the State Government

I am curious to know what particular jobs or skills we are talking about?

Basically technical specialist type jobs such as:

Water and sewage treatment engineers and technical officers.
Railway and tramway engineers and technical people.
Electrical distribution engineers and technical officers.
Highway engineers and technical officers.
Operational specialists in all these areas who can sniff out operational problems and weaknesses before they start to affect customers.

Basically those people who have deep knowledge of the existing systems so that they know the capacity and limitations of the existing systems, and can understand the deep technical issues that arise in any major activity.

So, for example, with the desal plant, this would be people with masters degrees in public health engineering from UNSW. With the extension of the tramway and purchasing of the Citadis, it would have been people who would have been able to source the correct information about the type of tram and why it was not really suitable for the Glenelg line. With the changeover to Transfield, it would have been people with the technical knowledge of what bus could go where, how to quickly react to operational problems and not learn-as-they-go. In all these areas, experienced in house professionals could price proposals and assess whether or not contract prices were reasonable, and whether or not the proposed contractors know wtf they are doing. For example, an experienced transport professional with local knowledge could have done a pre-tender interview with Transfield and asked a few pertinent questions like: "What would you do if..." andconcluded that they just did not have what it took to take up the contract. Sometimes it is not in the interest of the contractor to take up a contract if they have miscalculated the size of the job. A tender interview such as I have described enables a contractor who has made that misjudgement to withdraw from the process with honour intact, rather than take something on which turns pear shaped to the detriment of the company's reputation. I can see this whole saga turning up in the courts where I suppose at least the lawyers will come out of it ahead.

The State Governments of all political colours round the country have let this expertise slip. Now technical specialists in consultancies can name their own prices, and people in-house have no idea whether or not the prices are reasonable or complete ripoffs. They are no longer able (as we have daily proof) to warn tenderers that they may be trying to bite off more than they can chew.

[Omicron]

To be fair, the right managers in the right positions would do well - it's indicative of a misguided recruitment process and selection criteria for senior public service positions that the wrong people get through. Methinks, too, that the general indifference (at best) towards government/politics keeps many of the brightest minds in the private sector away from the public service.

[rubberman]

To be fair, the right managers in the right positions would do well - it's indicative of a misguided recruitment process and selection criteria for senior public service positions that the wrong people get through. Methinks, too, that the general indifference (at best) towards government/politics keeps many of the brightest minds in the private sector away from the public service.

There may be that, but the simple fact remains that no matter how good the managers, if there is no-one there with the deep technical knowledge to ask technical questions of contractors and consultants, or during the project development, you have no chance.

For example, when evaluating the Citadis, a technical expert would have identified that these are quite suitable for shuttle service over concrete, but they are not suitable for open ballast track, and be able to explain the reason in simple terms, and be able to source plenty of technical literature (even if hard copy because a lot of the work establishing why it is so was done a century before and is not in digital form) to back themselves up. Or, when evaluating Transfield, they could ask from where and who were the drivers? What was their experience? How long did they think it was going to take drivers to familiarise? etc, etc.

Managers just do not have the technical knowledge to ask these questions and not be fudged about.

[Aidan]

For example, when evaluating the Citadis, a technical expert would have identified that these are quite suitable for shuttle service over concrete, but they are not suitable for open ballast track, and be able to explain the reason in simple terms, and be able to source plenty of technical literature (even if hard copy because a lot of the work establishing why it is so was done a century before and is not in digital form) to back themselves up.

I'm rather puzzled as to why you think the Citadises are not suitable for open ballast track. Wasn't it the Flexitys that derailed?

The real problem wasn't the Citadises, it was the Flexity order: too small, and bad specifications.

Or, when evaluating Transfield, they could ask from where and who were the drivers? What was their experience? How long did they think it was going to take drivers to familiarise? etc, etc.

That's hardly a new problem - a lot of new drivers meant there was some disruption when Serco won the first contract back in the '90s - but IIRC everything was back to normal within a week, so it doesn't explain why Transfield's so bad.

IMO the contracts are too big - disruption would be minimized if bus routes were tendered one route at a time like they are in London. Unfortunately our buses aren't frequent enough for that to be economically viable, but even so there is scope for some smaller contracts.

Managers just do not have the technical knowledge to ask these questions and not be fudged about.

How much of the problem is due to failure to ask questions rather than inability to do anything about the answers?

[rubberman]

For example, when evaluating the Citadis, a technical expert would have identified that these are quite suitable for shuttle service over concrete, but they are not suitable for open ballast track, and be able to explain the reason in simple terms, and be able to source plenty of technical literature (even if hard copy because a lot of the work establishing why it is so was done a century before and is not in digital form) to back themselves up.

I'm rather puzzled as to why you think the Citadises are not suitable for open ballast track. Wasn't it the Flexitys that derailed?

The real problem wasn't the Citadises, it was the Flexity order: too small, and bad specifications.

Or, when evaluating Transfield, they could ask from where and who were the drivers? What was their experience? How long did they think it was going to take drivers to familiarise? etc, etc.

That's hardly a new problem - a lot of new drivers meant there was some disruption when Serco won the first contract back in the '90s - but IIRC everything was back to normal within a week, so it doesn't explain why Transfield's so bad.

IMO the contracts are too big - disruption would be minimized if bus routes were tendered one route at a time like they are in London. Unfortunately our buses aren't frequent enough for that to be economically viable, but even so there is scope for some smaller contracts.

Managers just do not have the technical knowledge to ask these questions and not be fudged about.

How much of the problem is due to failure to ask questions rather than inability to do anything about the answers?

Citadis are single truckers. What that means is that the whole compartment is rotated instead of merely the bogie. Very much higher inertial mass therefore. What that means is that on firm straight track, not much of a problem. However, open ballast track settles, and unless very very often packed and straightened, you get a rather nasty rocking motion. The Adelaide A class did this when coupled. So did almost all single trucker ever built in coupled mode. So actually at the moment while the track is new, you probably won't see much difference. However, once the open ballast track starts to settle, you will see the difference. The point you make about the original Flexity contract is valid. However, it supports my point in that someone with good in depth knowledge of transport would have predicted that. Actually, I am quite happy to expand on this, but not in this thread. It was meant to be an example only and not a thread derail (no pun intended).

Transfield. Er yes, it is hardly a new problem. Again, that also supports my point. People with experience would not have those problems precisely as you state because it is hardly a new problem. Of course for a manager coming in without technical expertise, it would be a new problem. My point precisely, thanks. Also, in the nineties, there were people from the old STA available to the likes of Serco. They ain't round now due to the aging of those operational experts. My point again, thanks.

Contracts too big? Oh come on! While I am pointing out the shortcomings due to the lack of specialist technical competence of government as a purchaser of services, I have no criticism to make of Australian project managers, some of whom are the best in the world. Have a look round at the complexity of projects managed by Australians here and overseas, and a few bus routes is frankly no problem at all. Might I venture that the problem is more the lack of companies with the ability to tender and carry out the work. Or is that what you are getting at?

Perhaps we could get back to the point before the seventies when the MTT took over the licensed private bus services? Is that what you mean? (This is a serious question btw).

[Aidan]

Citadis are single truckers. What that means is that the whole compartment is rotated instead of merely the bogie. Very much higher inertial mass therefore. What that means is that on firm straight track, not much of a problem. However, open ballast track settles, and unless very very often packed and straightened, you get a rather nasty rocking motion. The Adelaide A class did this when coupled. So did almost all single trucker ever built in coupled mode. So actually at the moment while the track is new, you probably won't see much difference. However, once the open ballast track starts to settle, you will see the difference.

Is this just theoretical? Or has someone actually had a problem with Citadis ride quality?

Considering the articulations in the Citadis that the A class didn't have, I don't think the two are directly comparable.

Contracts too big? Oh come on! While I am pointing out the shortcomings due to the lack of specialist technical competence of government as a purchaser of services, I have no criticism to make of Australian project managers, some of whom are the best in the world. Have a look round at the complexity of projects managed by Australians here and overseas, and a few bus routes is frankly no problem at all. Might I venture that the problem is more the lack of companies with the ability to tender and carry out the work. Or is that what you are getting at?

That's partly what I'm getting at.

Perhaps we could get back to the point before the seventies when the MTT took over the licensed private bus services? Is that what you mean? (This is a serious question btw).

It's not what I mean. There are significant savings from contracting the operations out, but the size of the contracts has four significant negative effects: firstly it makes it very difficult for all but the largest companies to bid. Secondly it increases the amount of disruption when the contracted service begins. Thirdly because there are so few contracts, it is a long time between tenders, which reduces the opportunity for innovation. And fourthly when the incumbent bidder loses, they may completely cease to be involved in bus service provision in Adelaide, which probably means we'll lose the opportunity to take advantage of their expertise.