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I support a city loop 100% though fyi - A great way to optimize city movements. For medium to long distance urban public transport the trams will likely be

zills_86 wrote: The whole tram debacle feels like a fad, a very expensive fad that perhaps we're going to look back on and think "what were we thinking??"

Almost exactly like what happened 100 years ago. Last time electric trams only lasted 40 years before being ripped out.
What is so different this time?

Electric heavy rail and subway is surely forwards.

bits wrote:

zills_86 wrote: The whole tram debacle feels like a fad, a very expensive fad that perhaps we're going to look back on and think "what were we thinking??"

Almost exactly like what happened 100 years ago. Last time electric trams only lasted 40 years before being ripped out.
What is so different this time?

Electric heavy rail and subway is surely forwards.

Last time there was literally no other option but to either walk or catch the tram, they were taken over by buses and cars. We've now reached the point where there's enough of a market for trams to come back

And cars and buses are reaching saturation point. A good mass transit alternative is needed - trams fit that bill in many cases.

rubberman wrote:

claybro wrote:

rubberman wrote:The good news is that with the Federal government having no intention of honoring its promises, it can promise to do the lot. Promises are cheap if you never intend to keep them.

Specifically relating to transport infrastructure in SA, what broken promises are you referring to regarding the current FEDERAL term? I thought it was the STATE government that continually promises, rolls out studies and reports and then lets them quietly die. I am happy to be corrected though.

Here's the most important broken promise relevant to this:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-07/c ... ck/5850038

I may be missing something, but the list of "broken promises" seem to relate to projects that have either been "stuffed" up or cancelled by STATE governments..ie Not sure how the lack of federal gov funding can be blamed for the East/West link debacle in Victoria, or the on going delays with the freight link in Perth. And I did ask for specific transport projects in SA that had been cancelled due to Federal government broken promise. From what I remember, both Labour and Lib FEDERAL government transport projects in SA have proceeded largely as promised except due to hold ups whilst the various state politics have played out.

Claybro,

Ok, let me join the dots.

The suggestion previous to my comment was that Malcolm should fund our tram network (or at least put some money for it).

However, the link I provided shows that the Coalition had promised that NO Federal funds would be forthcoming unless a full business case and cost benefit study was done for projects over $100mill.

Therefore, if the Feds kept their promise, there's zero chance of funding being announced before the next Election. Zero. Nix. None. Reason: There's not enough time to complete a proper economic evaluation.

With no Federal funding, there's zero chance the State would do it....there's plenty of other stuff to do.

However, the good news is that the Coalition broke this promise in order to give their mates a few billions of taxpayer money with that tunnel in Melbourne. Meaning that the requirements for a business case only depend on political necessity and/or helping mates out, not the economics of the system.

So, if they think it will win the seats needed to keep them in power, there's a chance of a promise at least.

Hence my statement that the Coalition's breaking of promises was good news for the tram system.

But what specifically funded federal transport initiative has been cancelled due to federal funds being cancelled in this or last federal term? From what I can see, the FEDS are begging to hand over the money for some very specific targeted projects, just the states keep phaffing around or playing politics with it.

claybro wrote:But what specifically funded federal transport initiative has been cancelled due to federal funds being cancelled in this or last federal term? From what I can see, the FEDS are begging to hand over the money for some very specific targeted projects, just the states keep phaffing around or playing politics with it.

Now I'm confused. Who mentioned cancelling the tram project? It hasn't even got to the stage of being approved.

rubberman wrote:Now I'm confused. Who mentioned cancelling the tram project? It hasn't even got to the stage of being approved.

Apparently you did unless I have miss read. This is the tram thread, and somehow you morphed into a discussion about the FEDS breaking election promises. which was the reason for my direct question of what broken promises you were referring to specifically, because as far as I know, there has so far been no FED money on the table for trams in Adelaide.

rubberman wrote:Feds going to shore up a State politician vs marginal Fed seat when they know they are going to lose seats for sure, and maybe lose government? My bet is on self preservation. Of course, they can just do what they did at the last election, promise promise promise, and then promptly break those promises after the election.In any case, there's sooo many, surveys, business cases, investigations, consultations, processes, reviews, designs and data gathering to do. Lol! The good news is that with the Federal government having no intention of honoring its promises, it can promise to do the lot. Promises are cheap if you never intend to keep them.

claybro wrote:But what specifically funded federal transport initiative has been cancelled due to federal funds being cancelled in this or last federal term? From what I can see, the FEDS are begging to hand over the money for some very specific targeted projects, just the states keep phaffing around or playing politics with it.

Gawler rail electrification was cancelled/postponed due to Abbott government withdrawing funding.

Claybro :

The words "breaking promises" which I said, and "cancelling projects" are not the same.

ml69 wrote:

claybro wrote:But what specifically funded federal transport initiative has been cancelled due to federal funds being cancelled in this or last federal term? From what I can see, the FEDS are begging to hand over the money for some very specific targeted projects, just the states keep phaffing around or playing politics with it.

Gawler rail electrification was cancelled/postponed due to Abbott government withdrawing funding.

Ah then I stand corrected, as from my memory, the Abbot government specifically did not fun urban rail, only roads. I thought it was the state government that postponed the electrification plan.

ml69 wrote:

claybro wrote:But what specifically funded federal transport initiative has been cancelled due to federal funds being cancelled in this or last federal term? From what I can see, the FEDS are begging to hand over the money for some very specific targeted projects, just the states keep phaffing around or playing politics with it.

Gawler rail electrification was cancelled/postponed due to Abbott government withdrawing funding.

That's a small part of the wider problem

Any withdrawal was due to SA not matching the Feds money over a couple of years.

Out of interest what funding got cut due to the qld floods?

claybro wrote:

ml69 wrote:

claybro wrote:But what specifically funded federal transport initiative has been cancelled due to federal funds being cancelled in this or last federal term? From what I can see, the FEDS are begging to hand over the money for some very specific targeted projects, just the states keep phaffing around or playing politics with it.

Gawler rail electrification was cancelled/postponed due to Abbott government withdrawing funding.

Ah then I stand corrected, as from my memory, the Abbot government specifically did not fun urban rail, only roads. I thought it was the state government that postponed the electrification plan.

It was.

Waewick wrote:

claybro wrote:

ml69 wrote: Gawler rail electrification was cancelled/postponed due to Abbott government withdrawing funding.

Ah then I stand corrected, as from my memory, the Abbot government specifically did not fund urban rail, only roads. I thought it was the state government that postponed the electrification plan.

It was.

Not according to this:

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/sout ... 6745622546

Or should I state more precisely : The State government postponed the project because the Federal Government broke its promise to provide funding.