COM: Seaford Rail Extension | $291m | 5.5km

[fabricator]

The end of the line at Tonsley does need a little work....


Stop board about halfway up the platform at Tonsley Station. Notice how the star dropper has been hammered in.

[Port Adelaide Fan]

Trains to Seaford in 2014

THE first trains to Seaford along the Noarlunga rail line will be operating in 2014, pending federal funding, in an undertaking welcomed by southern residents.

State Transport Minister Pat Conlon announced last week that work would begin on a Seaford extension next year if funding were provided from the $20 billion Building Australia Fund.

The 2014 completion date would coincide with electrification of the whole southern line.

Seaford District Residents Association chairman Ron Jenkins said the announcement showed things were “starting to move” with the Noarlunga line extension. “It’s fantastic news, we’re quite happy if it’s going to happen,” Mr Jenkins said.

“But until we see some definite dates on Cabinet documents we’re still a bit cautious.”

Mr Jenkins said he was proud of the community’s efforts in contributing to the 7353-signature petition, launched by his group and the Southern Times Messenger in June.

It is understood the petition, which was tabled in State Parliament, formed part of the application for federal funding.

Onkaparinga Mayor Lorraine Rosenberg said she was “blown away” at how far the extension issue had progressed in the past two years.

“There’s an awful lot of ifs, but I guess when we spoke to the Federal (Transport) Minister about the need for it he was very supporting and understood the area’s need for it,” Ms Rosenberg said.

Aldinga Bay Traders Association chairwoman Cheryl Batic questioned why an extension would take six years to be in operation. “I’m really pleased that it looks like it will go ahead and the sooner it gets further south the better,” Mrs Batic said.

“It’s just a shame that it’s going to take that long for it to happen.”

Aldinga Bay Residents Association president Kevin Hutton was also pleased by the prospect of the rail line coming closer: “It was always going to go to Seaford first and I would think they’ll eventually continue on (to Aldinga) but we certainly weren’t expecting it yet,” Mr Hutton said.

“What we’ll need from here, however, is feeder buses going directly to the Seaford station to get us out of a hole we’ve got here at the moment.”

http://southern-times-messenger.whereil ... -for-2014/

[drwaddles]

If frequency was boast to 10 minutes, then other areas will demand 10min frequency which will cause a major nightmare for the State Government because we currently unfortunately don't have enough buses.

Plus the bus route probably doesn't have the demand for it, so the current frequency is fine.

I caught the 600 bus from Westfield Marion to Henley Beach on Saturday and it wasn't very packed

Public transport demand is supply driven. If the suplly is not there (i.e. a frequent service) then people will respond by either not travelling or travelling via private vehicle. Thus, you need to look at total travel demand to see what mode-share PT is missing out on.

Even if you determine that travel demand is too low for a 10-min frequency to be provided, the provision of anything less than 4 services per hour will result in no choice usership without interference from outside factors, such as a lack of parking.

Remember that 6 services per hour are required for travel CHOICE not capacity - anything above 6 services per hour is provided for capacity reasons.

[Somebody]

Celebrate good times come on?

I was busy sampling public transport in South East Queensland, while Harvey and friends were eating potato chips, drinking Coke and posting on Sensational Adelaide.

I win.

[crawf]

Which they should get.

And where is the money going to come from?

Provide a useless frequency (30 minutely), and don't be surprised if nobody uses it.

Public transport demand is supply driven.

People are more likely going to drive to a suburban location then catch PT

[Somebody]

And where is the money going to come from

The same place that all other public transport funding comes from?

http://www.ptua.org.au/myths/runcost.shtml
(Dribblers: Yes, it is a Victorian site ****BUT WHAT IT SAYS IS STILL TRUE NO MATTER WHAT CITY IS IS****)

Unfortunately, even when this much is explained, the fallacy still arises. This is because there is no shortage of Australian and US cities and towns with low-quality bus services that spend most of their time running almost empty. The cost per passenger of running an empty bus is not just higher than that of running a car: it's infinitely higher. So it's not good enough to just run a few buses or trains for the sake of it: the key to cost-effective transport is high passenger volumes.

Ensuring an appropriate level of 'bums on seats' on public transport requires not so much money as brains, to ensure that the available infrastructure is used to its maximum potential to provide a high frequency, close-knit transport network. But when brains are in short supply, there is a temptation just to spend more money instead. This is responsible for much of the poor reputation of public transport in the USA and Australia.

By contrast, many systems in Britain, Europe and Canada not only provide a higher level of service - they actually cost less per passenger to run. Vancouver, for example, has for thirty years pursued a strategy of investment in public transport as an alternative to traffic congestion. Its public transport runs at much higher frequencies than ours, and charges lower fares. Yet its budget for roads and public transport in 2005 was $180 per resident, compared to $430 per resident in Melbourne.

[drwaddles]

People are more likely going to drive to a suburban location then catch PT

With that attitude, don't dare complain about car dependence or car usage.

You must provide a service in order for people to use it - anything less than 4 services per hour is not sufficiently attractive to reduce car usage.

[drwaddles]

http://www.minister.infrastructure.gov. ... 5_2008.htm

EXPRESSIONS OF INTEREST CALLED FOR DARLINGTON TRANSPORT PROJECT

Expressions of Interest have been called for an outside consultant to undertake the necessary planning and feasibility work on a multi-million dollar Darlington Transport Project.

Federal Minister for Infrastructure and Transport Anthony Albanese said the Project forms part of the Australian Government's commitment to develop the first stage of a non-stop motorway from the Southern Expressway to the Port River Expressway.

It would also examine the feasibility of upgrading and extending road and public transport facilities along Adelaide's north-south transport corridor at Darlington.

"This is a key component of Adelaide's north-south corridor stretching from the Southern Expressway to the Port River Expressway," said Mr Albanese.

"The study will plan improvements to the intersection of South and Sturt roads as well as investigate the feasibility of a Tonsley passenger rail line extension to the Flinders Medical Centre with a new interchange and a Transit Oriented Development.

"By starting this critical planning work now, we will be in a position to start delivering on our $500 million commitment to upgrade South Road.

"At last year's election, Labor said it would make tackling congestion on our roads a priority. This announcement is proof we are moving quickly to honour that pledge."

South Australian Minister for Transport, Patrick Conlon said the Darlington Transport Project is a crucial initiative that will plan for future demands along Adelaide's crucial north-south arterial road network as well as improve public transport facilities and reduce urban congestion in the southern suburbs.

"Upgrading this section of South Road builds on our commitment to create a non-stop north-south corridor with the Anzac Highway underpass and the South Road tram overpass," Mr Conlon said.

"Planning for the Cormack Road/Grand Junction Road intersection at the northern end of South Road is also well underway.

"A new public transport interchange and Park n Ride facility could provide commuter car parking and a weather protected passenger rail and bus interchange.

"The study will also analyse the feasibility of a Transit Oriented Development as part of the Government's commitment to improved land use so as to reduce urban congestion."

Expressions of Interest are being sought for the Integrated Planning Study, which will identify the concept plans for the project and will include environmental impact assessment, community engagement and detailed economic evaluation.

Expressions of Interest close on 18 November 2008.

[AtD]

Thanks drwaddles. It sounds like that Flinders Interchange render was just a concept.

[fabricator]

Nice find there drwaddles.

Also the same artist's impressions.
Notice the name (turns out to be an architecture company) Flinder's Uni logo at the bottom, looks like the uni paid for the design.

So basically we have a few glossy pictures, but not feasibility study, blueprints . And yet the state government have already applied for federal money to pay for this unknown. Now having publicly announced this thing, they are hurriedly trying to get someone to look at if its a waste of money or not. And designed by the same company who brought us Mawson Leaks Station (roof still leaks btw), and Oakwinds carpark Station (still drafty). Expect more of the same, and its going to cost a fortune too.

Here Mr Conlon have my advice absolutely free, this is possibly the most overly expensive train station i've ever seen, it just won't have the passenger usage to justify its existance. Noarlunga Center was cheaper, and that has a proper destination, the only thing more expensive was Adelaide station itself, and that nearly bankrupted the state. Just no way to get the private sector to pay for the building, too hard to borrow money at the moment.

I'd much rather see a simple upgrade of the existing station, and a viaduct towards Flinders Medical Center for a future track extension. The dirt from the road underpass gets used up that way. If the government want to spend money on a station, try Gawler East and build a real extension.

[fabricator]

A quick comparison between the earthworks for the Proposed Flinders Interchange, and my own proposal to extend the line to cross South road on a bridge/viaduct.



green = ground level
black = road level
red = rail and cuttings

As you can see the Flinders Interchange puts the rail itself below ground level, and 10 meters below South Road. Then wraps the whole thing in a thick layer of concrete, good luck punching through that lot.

Trains don't climb hills well either, so that -10 meters requires 450m of extra track to get back to ground level. But by then the hill has risen 10 meters itself (or more), and so requires several extra kilometers of tunnels that wouldn't be needed otherwise.

My own idea is to lower South Road 5 meters, then raise the track 5 meters or so, this then gives 10 meters clearance over South Road for the rail bridge. Rebuild Tonsley to take two tracks and match the new alignment, and build a new station right opposite the hospital. The lower south road will meet perfectly with the South Road/Sturt Road underpass, and the dirt can be used the build up the track and surrounding land. The rail overpass on Sturt road will double as a pedestrian bridge, and a bus terminal can be build on both sides of the road.

Best of all this would cost the same as the big interchange, but with far more track, and less distance to walk to get to the Uni/Hospital. Track can be extended South at will after that.


Give me some time, I'll make the Flinders Interchange in 3d too, so everyone can compare the two.

[fabricator]

The government have 'unearthed' a new problem which I think will effect the proposed Flinders interchange.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 82,00.html

Poison groundwater in city's south
A TOXIC chemical used as a degreaser and metal cleaner has been detected in bore water in Adelaide's southern suburbs.

SA Health and the Environment Protection Authority said today that they were investigating the contamination of ground water at Clovelly Park, near the old Mitsubishi site, after tests had identified the presence of trichloroethene (TCE).

They said 230 homes in the area had been sent letters warning against the use of any bore or groundwater.

SA Health's chief medical officer Paddy Phillips said the levels of TCE were above the guidelines for drinking water quality.

"The full extent and exact source of this contamination hasn't been determined but investigations are continuing," Professor Phillips said.

"As a precaution, SA Health is advising people not to use groundwater for any purpose unless it has been tested and deemed safe for its intended use."

Professor Phillips said tap water supplied to Clovelly Park was unaffected.

An altered version of the map the news paper made up.


Yes that is the Tonsley line and station in the middle of that mess. Even the tunnel for the train under Sturt Road is going to cost more due to the need to remove contaminated soil and prevent the ground water contamination spreading.

[Wayno]

Yes that is the Tonsley line and station in the middle of that mess. Even the tunnel for the train under Sturt Road is going to cost more due to the need to remove contaminated soil and prevent the ground water contamination spreading.

so maybe better to keep the train at ground level and build a road bridge for Sturt Rd traffic? would that avoid the contamination problem?

[Shuz]

I really liked Fabricator's train bridge idea over South and Sturt Roads. It makes logical sense and would avoid the cost of cleaning up the contamination.

[AtD]

They'd still have to clean up contamination because:
- They'd still have to excavate
- People live there