Discussion: Development of Adelaide Railyards

[Shuz]

Will409 is right about having 13 platforms, but when the station was built it was designed to have up to 20 platforms should the need be there at some stage.

Actually we should say it had 13 tracks. That's probably easier to understand.

The ASER project has Adelaide station up, It is now a cave of overcrowded platforms disel fumes and no room to expand.

Till this day I don't understand why they couldn't design ASER differently and keep those four tracks. It was that bloody ramp to the Hyatt, the addition of the Riverside office building and car park under the Exhibition Centre that stuffed things up.

Cheers

I think its still possible to reclaim the 13 stations. If I understand the site correctly, Festival Drive goes behind the Hyatt - where access ramps could just be re-built on that side. The Riverside office building is bound to come down someday... which would allow some of the gradient to return to street level (North Terrace) and then to re-instate the extra 4 platforms under North Terrace. Now, why were focused on 13 platforms I don't know, go 15-20 for all I care, but they would have to be under grounded expanding southwards, considering the exhibition Centre car park blocks any expansion northwards.

[crawf]

I heard that the Keswick Rail Terminal is being upgraded... is this true?

Keswick has undergone a paint makeover at least. I don't know if it has gone any further.

Actually I don't think there is anything wrong with the Keswick site that can't be fixed. It makes sense to have the interstate terminal in a place where there is room for long platforms, trains entering from both north and south, room to store railcars, service locos, and everything else that is required from an interstate rail terminal. Unfortunately there is still a lot to be done, like make rail connections to Adelaide easy and frequent, and giving the place the feel of a major station. This is all achievable, it just needs to be done.

I think there is more planned for Keswick.

[BJMAC]

People seem to be forgetting that the interstate trains aren't just passenger journeys. Each trip of the Ghan & Indian Pacific carries both freight and passengers cars aswell as passengers. The Overland to Melbourne does not take passengers vehicles but does take freight. So the Keswick sight is perfect for this. Its real close to the CBD and allows all 3 forms service in one station. The CBD train station would not be able to cope with all of this. It seems pointless having the trains load passengers at the city terminal, then stopping at Keswick for a few hours so the ppl with cars and the freight can be loaded seperately.

All other major cities have seperate terminals for the interstate trains as opposed to their main passenger public transport stations... think about Melbourne - Southern Cross Station is the interstate and the main passenger terminal is Flinders St.... Perth's interstate terminal is in East Perth and Sydney's "Central Station" for interstate trains is not even in the CBD.

We are lucky that Keswick has dual access to both Richmond Rd and Sir Don Brad Drv and is so close to the CBD. It just needs to be done up... You should take a drive down the road that goes to the station.. it's potentially really nice spot... actually the whole area needs a spruce up.... like some nice gardens and there is a sign on the Richmond rd entrance that has pictures of a new terminal, so that could be promising.

[jimmy_2486]

think about Melbourne - Southern Cross Station is the interstate and the main passenger terminal is Flinders St....

Southern Cross Station is in the CBD and is used by metro aswell?

[BJMAC]

Yeah Southern Cross Station Does... because Melbourne has the numbers for different CBD stops. If the Keswick area (like that new Coffey development) all go ahead and it becomes a busier area, with more commuters, then i cant see why Adelaide metro trains couldnt stop at the Keswick sight too, like Southern Cross

[crawf]

Keswick already has a metro station, though it needs a major redevelopment. Hopefully the World Park development will kick start it.

[rhino]

The trouble with Keswick's metro station is that hardly any trains stop at it!

[AtD]

Well you've got to remember there's only three trains that use Keswick terminal anyway.

[bmw boy]

I caught a glimpse of a render outside both roadside enteries of Keswick today. It shows the interior of an airport style terminal from what I could see.

[rogue]

People seem to be forgetting that the interstate trains aren't just passenger journeys. Each trip of the Ghan & Indian Pacific carries both freight and passengers cars aswell as passengers. The Overland to Melbourne does not take passengers vehicles but does take freight. So the Keswick sight is perfect for this. Its real close to the CBD and allows all 3 forms service in one station. The CBD train station would not be able to cope with all of this. It seems pointless having the trains load passengers at the city terminal, then stopping at Keswick for a few hours so the ppl with cars and the freight can be loaded seperately.

All other major cities have seperate terminals for the interstate trains as opposed to their main passenger public transport stations... think about Melbourne - Southern Cross Station is the interstate and the main passenger terminal is Flinders St.... Perth's interstate terminal is in East Perth and Sydney's "Central Station" for interstate trains is not even in the CBD.

We are lucky that Keswick has dual access to both Richmond Rd and Sir Don Brad Drv and is so close to the CBD. It just needs to be done up... You should take a drive down the road that goes to the station.. it's potentially really nice spot... actually the whole area needs a spruce up.... like some nice gardens and there is a sign on the Richmond rd entrance that has pictures of a new terminal, so that could be promising.

What about Spencer Street Station in Melbourne?

I have never seen a passenger service with freight wagons attached.

[BJMAC]

Southern Cross Station is Spencer St Station.

And the interstate services do take freight aswell as passengers... i see them going thru Nairne in the hills all the time... passenger cars at the front and freight at the back.

[AtD]

Just to make sure there's no confusion, almost all long-haul frieght trains have a 'crew car' that is an ex passenger car.

[skyliner]

I hope the extra development of Keswick does justice to this city - IMO very unattractive surrounds ands presentation at present. I have been there - an imterstate visitor would not be impressed.Look at the trouble Webb went to with the design of Adelaide station in 1926 by contrast. BMW boy, I would appreciate any render if possible to give a more informed response but as it is, NOT impressed.

With all the proposals for Keswick and the removal of west end goods yards, where now is the heart of Adelaide's goods/freight/passenger rail system - somewhere out in the sticks? It seems to me that just about all of the metro system has been wiped out over time - the city station losing interstate rail services, dropping to 8 platforms from 13, the loss of Islington, the loss oi SEVERAL metro lines, loss of West End yards, closing of manned metro stations, bus shelters on platforms instead of canopies, the virtual collapse of railways in and around Port Adelaide, etc etc. In addition, many have mentioned the idea of all the heavy rail going light rail on top of this - what a rediculous and untenable idea!! This does not even require the dignity of a response. All this seems to fly in the face of Adelaide's future seen in the airport, the trams and new bus interchange.

Sorry to get diverted

ADELAIDE - A CITY ON THE MOVE

[crawf]

closing of manned metro stations, bus shelters on platforms instead of canopies

Nonsense

The west end yards are going to be relocated to the northern suburbs, with facilities at Gawler, Lonsdale and another suburb to be expanded.

[Will409]

With all the proposals for Keswick and the removal of west end goods yards, where now is the heart of Adelaide's goods/freight/passenger rail system - somewhere out in the sticks?

The freight task in Adelaide is now handled mainly at Islington at the Adelaide Freight Terminal (AFT) which is where nearly all interstate freight traffic arrives and departs. There is also Dry Creek North and South Yards (both are seperated from eachother by the Port Wakefield Road overpass) which mainly deal with wagon storage and intrastate freight traffic (mainly grain trains and the soon to come online 'Mindarie' mineral sands train from Mindarie on the Loxton line to Outer Harbour. The smallest yard is at Port Flat between Port Adelaide and Outer Harbour. A few Adelaide-Melbourne services and some more intrastate traffic call in here. The AFT and the Dry Creek yards came online from 1982 when standard gauge reached Adelaide from Crystal Brooke. The yard at Adelaide railway station hasn't seen any freight traffic since the early colonial days (1890s at the latest).

The yard at Mile End was once the state's biggest and started operations in 1911 and was expanded (by Webb) in the 1920s as well as a 43 bay loco roundhouse. The roundhouse was closed in 1967 when the diesel depot opened and was demolished in 1973. The yards had a slower death. The opening of the above mentioned yards (except for Port Flat) took away most of the traffic. A much smaller Mile End yard finally closed in 1998 when the SCT depot was moved to Islington. By this stage, it had been reduced to 3 or 4 small dead end sidings. The diesel depot was closed in 1990 when the new MPC was opened at Dry Creek.

The west end yards are going to be relocated to the northern suburbs, with facilities at Gawler, Lonsdale and another suburb to be expanded.

The current railcar depots at Gawler, Lonsdale and Belair will be expanded. Gawler railcar depot wouldn't be too hard to do since in steam days, the depot was much larger and there is still a turning triangle there although much over grown. Belair would be a bit trickier since it is in a tight location. The only way for it to be expanded would be to cut into the hill a little but more. This would more then likely allow for the lengthening of the two stabling roads there although it may be possible to add a third road by shifting the staff carpark closer to Sheoak Road. Lonsdale would be a simpler version of a Belair expansion if done on the Adelaide side of the depot. These depots would only be for refueling and stabling.

Major maintenance would be done at a new depot at Dry Creek (in a different location to the MPC). Current railfan speculation is that it would be on the eastern side of Dry Creek station at the former Steamranger depot. This would incorperate the former Northfield line triangle which would allow for the turning of railcars (which evens out the wheel wear). The former Steamranger depot has three roads under cover as well as a couple of other roads partly covered with dirt. There are also some overgrown sidings behind the platform as well as a headshunt from the sidings. It would not take much effort to fix up the track and slew the headshunt over to a new crossover on the mainline for access from the south. A similar arrangement could be done from the northern side of the triangle. The only possible problem with this new depot which would take over all reposibilities of the current Adelaide Railcar Depot would be the possible size issue although a larger proportion of the fleet would be held at the other locations already mentioned.