News & Discussion: Trams

[monotonehell]

The tram network c.mid-1950s.

I'm pretty sure the trams never got to Kilburn. Afaik, it was started, but never finished due to the decision to scrap trams.

I think you're correct, the Kilburn extension on this old model is displayed as a dashed line.

[[Shuz]]

I wonder if when the tram network is expanded, if they will use route numbers or just simply refer to their destination?

[Patrick_27]

The tram network c.mid-1950s.

I'm pretty sure the trams never got to Kilburn. Afaik, it was started, but never finished due to the decision to scrap trams.

I think you're correct, the Kilburn extension on this old model is displayed as a dashed line.

I realise that the need is outweighed by the cost but I'd love to see the network reappear in this form (perhaps with a little more concentration on the western suburbs now that it's not just industrial area.

[Patrick_27]

I wonder if when the tram network is expanded, if they will use route numbers or just simply refer to their destination?

Good question, I'd same the number system would only come into play again if you have multiple spur lines coming off one line. So for example the Erindale Line had Linden Park and Burnside coming off of it, but the Linden Park Line could also terminate at Dulwich or Victoria Park.

[monotonehell]

I realise that the need is outweighed by the cost but I'd love to see the network reappear in this form (perhaps with a little more concentration on the western suburbs now that it's not just industrial area.

Industrial areas were well serviced by trams, in order to carry the workers there.

I think you'll find the reason why the western suburbs were not serviced much was because they were mostly swamp until they were drained and reclaimed mid to late last century.

[Goodsy]

I realise that the need is outweighed by the cost but I'd love to see the network reappear in this form (perhaps with a little more concentration on the western suburbs now that it's not just industrial area.

Industrial areas were well serviced by trams, in order to carry the workers there.

I think you'll find the reason why the western suburbs were not serviced much was because they were mostly swamp until they were drained and reclaimed mid to late last century.

they also used to use the trams to transport race horses between the tracks

[Torrens_5022]

Would be nice if they used the old Glenelg to North Tce railway corridor - It's pretty low density so you could build more housing like apartments along the line

[monotonehell]

Would be nice if they used the old Glenelg to North Tce railway corridor - It's pretty low density so you could build more housing like apartments along the line

But they built a road over the useful part of it.

[Westside]

Would be nice if they used the old Glenelg to North Tce railway corridor - It's pretty low density so you could build more housing like apartments along the line

Ah yes, this old chestnut. It didn't work when Adelaide was in its hey day of public transport usage and it certainly won't work now. Way too close to the existing Glenelg tramway and only gets closer the further out you get. How about increasing the density around the current Glenelg tram alignment? No increase in infrastructure costs, with the only costs coming from requiring increased frequency or larger vehicles on the line as the patronage increases.

[rev]

Just imagine if the dumb asses running the state in the past didn't decide to rip up the tram network.
Today we'd be talking about increasing density around tram lines and where else the network can be expanded or how it can be improved.
The decisions this state has made and continues to make, make you want to pull your hair out while stone cold sober.

[zippySA]

Trying not to sound like an apologist - but decisions made back then were based upon what they knew at the time and when vehicles were the best new thing to solve all our problems. Don't be too harsh when applying nostalgic views back in time - with the way things are developing (and btw I support fully rolling out new tram network now) - our grandchildren may look back on the $10B+ we will spend doing this and say "what the hell where they thinking"? Because they are moving around in autonomous pods that predict when and where they are needed and work on small roadways that have freed up massive amounts of real-estate compared to our current transport technology!!
We don't know much beyond 10-15years in reality though someone must make a call on infrastructure that is designed and built for 70+ year lifespans - it's a conundrum that faces all transport planners.

[Westside]

Just imagine if the dumb asses running the state in the past didn't decide to rip up the tram network.
Today we'd be talking about increasing density around tram lines and where else the network can be expanded or how it can be improved.
The decisions this state has made and continues to make, make you want to pull your hair out while stone cold sober.

Unfortunately it wasn't just this state where this occurred and it wasn't just the state government that should burden that blame. It happened right across the globe, with Melbourne being one shining exception. Unfortunately trams were seen as old technology and people were voting with their feet by increasing their private car usage and preferring newer, quieter buses to the old trams.

Who knows if we'd be saying a similarthing in another 50 years time: "Why'd they build all those tram lines in the early 2000s at the expense of building more freeways to cater for our driverless cars. Who catches a tram anyway, when you can order a driverless car for door to door service at any time of day?"

(Please note the above is tounge-in-cheek, obviously!)

[Norman]

Regarding the old Glenelg Train corridor, it has taken on a new life as a great linear park, which in itself has great benefits to the community as open space.

[monotonehell]

Regarding the old Glenelg Train corridor, it has taken on a new life as a great linear park, which in itself has great benefits to the community as open space.

...also....they built a road on the useful part of it!

Westside and Zippy both said almost the same thing; I'd just like to add that it's true about hindsight being 20/20 and what was done then seemed correct with the information at hand. However, and it's a big however, that information was mostly based on propaganda from a conspiracy of car and tyre manufacturers who systematically took over and undermined PT systems and then pointed at the failures they caused. Who also pumped the US government full of lobbyists and money in favour of building freeways everywhere.

[rubberman]

Just imagine if the dumb asses running the state in the past didn't decide to rip up the tram network.
Today we'd be talking about increasing density around tram lines and where else the network can be expanded or how it can be improved.
The decisions this state has made and continues to make, make you want to pull your hair out while stone cold sober.

There were a number of things that made it hard to retain trams:

1). Much of the fleet was old and needed immediate replacement (A, A1, A2, B, C class cars were hand braked, and drivers refused to drive them for safety reasons), and D, E1 class cars were slow and under powered.

2). Much of the track had been under maintained during wartime because of staff and material shortages.

3). The power supply needed upgrading (rotary converters were inefficient, and the Port Adelaide power station was obsolete).

4). Tariff barriers meant that importing cheap trams like the PCC was out of the question.

5). The cold war compounded that and therefore PCC clones like the Tatra T1 which might have been even cheaper were out of the question.

6). With new suburbs springing up in the West, North and South, the existing system of public transport needed immediate expansion in the early fifties. With all the other problems, bustitution really was the only way to address Adelaide's needs. You need to remember that school building, utility provision and road building in that period was a big black hole for public funding.

7). The new buses could run one man in the evenings, saving money. Unions would not allow that for trams.

All this was a bit different to say Sydney, where there had been many new cars built pre-war, as well as a lot of track relaying in mass concrete starting in the lat 1920s. Now, removing trams in Sydney WAS very dodgy indeed.