News & Discussion: Trams

[PeFe]

I thought the tram to the Airport was a spur off?

Yes, most people expected a tram to Henley Beach AND the Airport.

Disappointing......

The plans have been updated. The tram to Henley Beach will come from Grange instead. Check the MCA documents for details.

Got any links for this document, Norman?

[Norman]

Yes, most people expected a tram to Henley Beach AND the Airport.

Disappointing......

The plans have been updated. The tram to Henley Beach will come from Grange instead. Check the MCA documents for details.

Got any links for this document, Norman?

Check under the MCA heading here: http://dpti.sa.gov.au/infrastructure/pu ... blications

[[Shuz]]

Travelling along HBR on a bus right now and I just cannot wait for the trams to come!

Once again, for the sanity of good, well educated, sane people - do not read the comments section on AdelaideNow.

[Kasey771]

Travelling along HBR on a bus right now and I just cannot wait for the trams to come!

Once again, for the sanity of good, well educated, sane people - do not read the comments section on AdelaideNow.

Yes apparently unless there are shitloads of on street parking a business cannot possibly operate. never mind those parks have hardly any turnover during the day. That councillor Kym McKay is a pro-car anti transit mongo. Dont be fooled by his sudden interest in the trees along HBR. He thinks every proposal to spend money in an area other than on roads is because of the "pedal mafia" what a spud. Adelaide's pedal mafia is so powerful we cant even be sure the Frome Street bike way will survive from ACC election to election:(

[rev]

Travelling along HBR on a bus right now and I just cannot wait for the trams to come!

Once again, for the sanity of good, well educated, sane people - do not read the comments section on AdelaideNow.

Yes apparently unless there are shitloads of on street parking a business cannot possibly operate. never mind those parks have hardly any turnover during the day. That councillor Kym McKay is a pro-car anti transit mongo. Dont be fooled by his sudden interest in the trees along HBR. He thinks every proposal to spend money in an area other than on roads is because of the "pedal mafia" what a spud. Adelaide's pedal mafia is so powerful we cant even be sure the Frome Street bike way will survive from ACC election to election:(

If a business cant survive because of a bit of roadworks, unless the road works have completely shut off access to that business and made it impossible to get to that business as a customer/client, then that business isn't very sound is it.

If one business closes, because they are going to build a tram line, then when the tram line is done or before, a new business will open up in it's place taking advantage of the tram line. Simple.
The new business will probably be better as well. And in the long run therell be more people coming and going from the area.

[shiftaling]

Thanks for the links to the "Multi-Criteria Analysis" reports

The PortLink proposals (apart from the heavy rail electrification option) seem to include a tram along War Memorial Drive west of KWS. Not sure how this would work - I would have thought if Grange Road was the proposal, Adam and Manton Streets would be the best option.

[Brucetiki]

These sorts of comments give me a "headdesk" moment.

The exact same things were said before the construction of the Gold Coast tramway. Exactly the same.

Once the tramway was constructed, businesses and construction boomed. It is now the case that businesses and developers have been campaigning to extend the Gold Coast line, and those not on the proposed route are the ones complaining.

The great thing about it is this: with all the negative vibes, one can buy up cheaply during the construction phase, then make a killing afterwards.

Don't forget the 'tram to nowhere' cries

[iandunross]

I've often thought HB tram would be better served running along the footpath on each side of the road - where the bike lane runs:
- saves the right turns
- saves the trees down the middle
- thru intersections you could divert the tram thru the middle of the road on one track, ala North Terrace under the Morphett Bridge

Is this ever done with light rail?

[[Shuz]]

No. Silly idea.

[AG]

I've often thought HB tram would be better served running along the footpath on each side of the road - where the bike lane runs:
- saves the right turns
- saves the trees down the middle
- thru intersections you could divert the tram thru the middle of the road on one track, ala North Terrace under the Morphett Bridge

Is this ever done with light rail?

This set up would be difficult to run from an operational perspective. If there's an emergency situation which requires trams to turn around and switch to the other track at short notice, you would end up with a lack of cross-over locations or a messy cross-over system where trams cross over the path of vehicular traffic in both directions. Also this would make track and system maintenance trickier by having the infrastructure split in to effectively two separate corridors.

Having both tram lines down one side of the road would be workable, indeed this configuration is used by the light rail on the Gold Coast.

[rubberman]

I've often thought HB tram would be better served running along the footpath on each side of the road - where the bike lane runs:
- saves the right turns
- saves the trees down the middle
- thru intersections you could divert the tram thru the middle of the road on one track, ala North Terrace under the Morphett Bridge

Is this ever done with light rail?

This set up would be difficult to run from an operational perspective. If there's an emergency situation which requires trams to turn around and switch to the other track at short notice, you would end up with a lack of cross-over locations or a messy cross-over system where trams cross over the path of vehicular traffic in both directions. Also this would make track and system maintenance trickier by having the infrastructure split in to effectively two separate corridors.

Having both tram lines down one side of the road would be workable, indeed this configuration is used by the light rail on the Gold Coast.

To answer both posts, this is done in Pilsen, and in Warsaw, and possibly elsewhere. It was also done in Ballarat. It's workable, but not usual. Certainly, it's preferable to centre island stops.

[rubberman]

Zurich in Switzerland has just ordered 70, 7 section Flexity trams (ours are 3 section, so less than half the capacity) for $6m each.

http://www.eurotransportmagazine.com/22 ... TY%20trams

That compares with $5m, for something half the capacity, in the Citadis.

Armed with this, surely we could go back to Madrid and say "$2.5m each, take it or leave it! "

Madrid hasn't been able to unload their Citadis on anybody. Why the heck should we pay top dollar? I do get the standardisation argument, but paying top dollar when we are dealing with a seller who can't move their stock? Heck, even buying something non-standard, if we saved an extra $2.5m per vehicle...how much would we save?

[Norman]

Has the purchase price been announced or are we still speculating?

[rubberman]

Has the purchase price been announced or are we still speculating?

Iirc, it was on the ABC website. There was also a quote from Transport singing the Citadis' praises.

As I said previously, if they get a price sub $2.5m, then I'll be happy. But if the ABC quote was accurate, and we're paying top dollar for trams that Madrid hasn't been able to unload in 10 years, then I stand by what I've said about it being a bad deal in that case.

[skyliner]

Now we are talking tram numbers and expense, does anyone know how many trams were used at the height of the original system - seems like they were everywhere. Will be some guide to the rebuilt system as well as expenses.

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKYLINE