Federal election 2022

[rev]

I explained before why tariffs were crazy. You have not, despite plenty of opportunity, given one reason how or why they could work. Therefore I conclude you have no reason. They do not protect jobs overall. They may protect jobs in one area and then destroy them in others, especially exports. This is not my opinion, it's the opinion of most economists and of experience in the real world of trade. Hand waving at the Constitution with absolutely no logical linkage to how anyone has done anything unconstitutional is another example of crazy batshittery. Trade negotiations are entirely constitutional.

Keep swinging for these loonies. Zero seats for Clive, and Pauline is close to losing her seat. The majority of Australians aren't taken in at all by these fools.

You generalized and implied they wanted to impose tariffs on everything coming in. They're policy says otherwise.
Which is what I pointed out.
I never said they were a great idea, or weren't.
But you were using that generalization as the basis for labelling them as bat shit crazy.

You seem to be arguing with your self to be honest.

[rubberman]

I explained before why tariffs were crazy. You have not, despite plenty of opportunity, given one reason how or why they could work. Therefore I conclude you have no reason. They do not protect jobs overall. They may protect jobs in one area and then destroy them in others, especially exports. This is not my opinion, it's the opinion of most economists and of experience in the real world of trade. Hand waving at the Constitution with absolutely no logical linkage to how anyone has done anything unconstitutional is another example of crazy batshittery. Trade negotiations are entirely constitutional.

Keep swinging for these loonies. Zero seats for Clive, and Pauline is close to losing her seat. The majority of Australians aren't taken in at all by these fools.

You generalized and implied they wanted to impose tariffs on everything coming in. They're policy says otherwise.
Which is what I pointed out.
I never said they were a great idea, or weren't.
But you were using that generalization as the basis for labelling them as bat shit crazy.

You seem to be arguing with your self to be honest.

You mean 95% of the population and I think either ON or UAP or both are batshit crazy.

Whatever. It's now ivory tower academic for 3 years. Who knows, ON and UAP might drop inane policies and attract candidates who are sane by then. And I'm sure those pink pigs are oiled up and ready to fly too....

[Llessur2002]

Two other big obstacles for both of those parties which stem directly from them being forged around their leaders:

1) Palmer is widely despised across Australia for a variety of his past undertakings
2) Pauline is by a number of measures an overt racist

Regardless of how much they might tone down their policies in the future, the above is likely to permanently and severely limit their palatability to a vast swathe of Australians.

[rev]

You mean 95% of the population and I think either ON or UAP or both are batshit crazy.

Whatever. It's now ivory tower academic for 3 years. Who knows, ON and UAP might drop inane policies and attract candidates who are sane by then. And I'm sure those pink pigs are oiled up and ready to fly too....

95% of Australians?

One Nation got 4.90% of the vote, +1.82%
United Australia Party got 4.15% of the vote, +0.72%
Liberal Democrat Party got 1.70% of the vote, +1.46%
Australian Federation Party got 0.38% of the vote

A little over 11% of voters disagree with your determination of those parties, enough so that they voted for these "bat shit crazies".

Your arguments during this election seem to constantly be at odds with the facts...now that's


The independents in total received 638,723 votes, or 5.5% of votes counted so far.
One Nation got 601,888 votes counted so far, or 4.90%.
United Australia Party 507,943 votes, Liberal Democrats 197,330, Australia Federation Party 44,743.

The bat shit crazy parties have all seen increases in support. Minor, but growing.
When Labor only got 3.8 million votes before preferences, the Liberal Party 2.8 million, the fact these "bat shit crazy" right wing populists managed to pull 1.3 million votes collectively should be a concern.
1.4 million votes to the Greens as well as the 600,000 odd that voted independents, that's a lot of unhappy people.

Belgium has announced mandatory 21 day lockdown/isolation for monkeypox.
These populist parties campaigned against lockdowns and many of the measures put in place for covid.
If that's the way the government decides to go as inevitably more countries will follow Belgium if monkeypox becomes a serious global concern, do you honestly see support for these "bat shit crazies" reducing or increasing?

Is anything in general going to improve for the average person? Cost of living going to suddenly go down? Wages/salaries suddenly going to go up? Housing going to suddenly become affordable for more people?
There's nothing remotely close to that on the horizon for the average Australian.

To write them off as "bat shit crazy" and say ridiculous shit like "95% of Australians agree with me"....that just shows you don't actually understand that millions of Australian's are fed up, some voted independent, some voted for these 'bat shit crazy' parties.

Figures are rounded off but lets look...
Labor got 3.8 million votes this election, 2019 they had 4.7 million. Negative 900,000.
Liberal got 2.8 million, 2019 they had 3.9 million. Negative 1.1 million.
LNP(QLD) got 900,000, 2019 they had 1.2 million. Negative 300,000
Nationals got 400,000, 2019 they had 600,000. Negative 200,000.
The Greens saw a minor decrease, less then 100,000 fewer votes.

Look a little further back, One Nation in 2016 had 175,020 votes. In 2013 they only managed 22,046 votes. They didn't manage to win any seats, but there's obviously plenty of support out there for them across the country and it's increasing.

But if laughing them off helps you cope, go for it. I'm sure the strategists within the Labor & Liberal parties though aren't finding it as amusing as you have.

[rubberman]

You mean 95% of the population and I think either ON or UAP or both are batshit crazy.

Whatever. It's now ivory tower academic for 3 years. Who knows, ON and UAP might drop inane policies and attract candidates who are sane by then. And I'm sure those pink pigs are oiled up and ready to fly too....

95% of Australians?

One Nation got 4.90% of the vote, +1.82%
United Australia Party got 4.15% of the vote, +0.72%
Liberal Democrat Party got 1.70% of the vote, +1.46%
Australian Federation Party got 0.38% of the vote

A little over 11% of voters disagree with your determination of those parties, enough so that they voted for these "bat shit crazies".

Your arguments during this election seem to constantly be at odds with the facts...now that's


The independents in total received 638,723 votes, or 5.5% of votes counted so far.
One Nation got 601,888 votes counted so far, or 4.90%.
United Australia Party 507,943 votes, Liberal Democrats 197,330, Australia Federation Party 44,743.

The bat shit crazy parties have all seen increases in support. Minor, but growing.
When Labor only got 3.8 million votes before preferences, the Liberal Party 2.8 million, the fact these "bat shit crazy" right wing populists managed to pull 1.3 million votes collectively should be a concern.
1.4 million votes to the Greens as well as the 600,000 odd that voted independents, that's a lot of unhappy people.

Belgium has announced mandatory 21 day lockdown/isolation for monkeypox.
These populist parties campaigned against lockdowns and many of the measures put in place for covid.
If that's the way the government decides to go as inevitably more countries will follow Belgium if monkeypox becomes a serious global concern, do you honestly see support for these "bat shit crazies" reducing or increasing?

Is anything in general going to improve for the average person? Cost of living going to suddenly go down? Wages/salaries suddenly going to go up? Housing going to suddenly become affordable for more people?
There's nothing remotely close to that on the horizon for the average Australian.

To write them off as "bat shit crazy" and say ridiculous shit like "95% of Australians agree with me"....that just shows you don't actually understand that millions of Australian's are fed up, some voted independent, some voted for these 'bat shit crazy' parties.

Figures are rounded off but lets look...
Labor got 3.8 million votes this election, 2019 they had 4.7 million. Negative 900,000.
Liberal got 2.8 million, 2019 they had 3.9 million. Negative 1.1 million.
LNP(QLD) got 900,000, 2019 they had 1.2 million. Negative 300,000
Nationals got 400,000, 2019 they had 600,000. Negative 200,000.
The Greens saw a minor decrease, less then 100,000 fewer votes.

Look a little further back, One Nation in 2016 had 175,020 votes. In 2013 they only managed 22,046 votes. They didn't manage to win any seats, but there's obviously plenty of support out there for them across the country and it's increasing.

But if laughing them off helps you cope, go for it. I'm sure the strategists within the Labor & Liberal parties though aren't finding it as amusing as you have.

Maths not your strong suit? If only 5% of people voted for ON, then 95% didn't. If UAP got fewer votes, then obviously more than 95% didn't. Which of those minor parties got more than 5%? You can't add parties that disagree with each other to contradict my point. 96% of Australians think UAP are nutty. 95% think ON is. Under your logic, I ought to be able to add those together to make 191%. Nope. I wouldn't even try. Nor will I let you get away with it. You can't add them together as you have done, because Australians think they are batshit crazy for different reasons.

Next. Since I have never opposed the idea of voting for independents, the rest of your argument is irrelevant. Totally. Did I ever argue against Fusion or Australian Federation? Or Lambie or Wilkie for that matter? Or the Teals? So, cross those votes off your list.

I have no problem with voting for independents. In fact, you might recall me advocating that earlier. Thanks for the support at last.

In no way does Australians voting for independents mean they are willing to vote for the out and out mouth frothers of ON or UAP.

[Nort]

Figures are rounded off but lets look...
Labor got 3.8 million votes this election, 2019 they had 4.7 million. Negative 900,000.
Liberal got 2.8 million, 2019 they had 3.9 million. Negative 1.1 million.

This is completely incorrect.

[SBD]

We have Sarah Game wearing the PHON hat in the state upper house. We have a fair chance that her mother will end up as a Senator for South Australia also wearing a PHON hat.

So even if less than 4% of South Australians gave her a number 1, more than a sixth (16.7%) of [those of us who cared enough to write preferences that far] preferred her to all other remaining candidates. It will be interesting to see how long either South Australian can remain true to their own values and a member of that party at the same time.

[rubberman]

You mean 95% of the population and I think either ON or UAP or both are batshit crazy.

Whatever. It's now ivory tower academic for 3 years. Who knows, ON and UAP might drop inane policies and attract candidates who are sane by then. And I'm sure those pink pigs are oiled up and ready to fly too....

95% of Australians?

One Nation got 4.90% of the vote, +1.82%
United Australia Party got 4.15% of the vote, +0.72%
Liberal Democrat Party got 1.70% of the vote, +1.46%
Australian Federation Party got 0.38% of the vote

A little over 11% of voters disagree with your determination of those parties, enough so that they voted for these "bat shit crazies".

Your arguments during this election seem to constantly be at odds with the facts...now that's


The independents in total received 638,723 votes, or 5.5% of votes counted so far.
One Nation got 601,888 votes counted so far, or 4.90%.
United Australia Party 507,943 votes, Liberal Democrats 197,330, Australia Federation Party 44,743.

The bat shit crazy parties have all seen increases in support. Minor, but growing.
When Labor only got 3.8 million votes before preferences, the Liberal Party 2.8 million, the fact these "bat shit crazy" right wing populists managed to pull 1.3 million votes collectively should be a concern.
1.4 million votes to the Greens as well as the 600,000 odd that voted independents, that's a lot of unhappy people.

Belgium has announced mandatory 21 day lockdown/isolation for monkeypox.
These populist parties campaigned against lockdowns and many of the measures put in place for covid.
If that's the way the government decides to go as inevitably more countries will follow Belgium if monkeypox becomes a serious global concern, do you honestly see support for these "bat shit crazies" reducing or increasing?

Is anything in general going to improve for the average person? Cost of living going to suddenly go down? Wages/salaries suddenly going to go up? Housing going to suddenly become affordable for more people?
There's nothing remotely close to that on the horizon for the average Australian.

To write them off as "bat shit crazy" and say ridiculous shit like "95% of Australians agree with me"....that just shows you don't actually understand that millions of Australian's are fed up, some voted independent, some voted for these 'bat shit crazy' parties.

Figures are rounded off but lets look...
Labor got 3.8 million votes this election, 2019 they had 4.7 million. Negative 900,000.
Liberal got 2.8 million, 2019 they had 3.9 million. Negative 1.1 million.
LNP(QLD) got 900,000, 2019 they had 1.2 million. Negative 300,000
Nationals got 400,000, 2019 they had 600,000. Negative 200,000.
The Greens saw a minor decrease, less then 100,000 fewer votes.

Look a little further back, One Nation in 2016 had 175,020 votes. In 2013 they only managed 22,046 votes. They didn't manage to win any seats, but there's obviously plenty of support out there for them across the country and it's increasing.

But if laughing them off helps you cope, go for it. I'm sure the strategists within the Labor & Liberal parties though aren't finding it as amusing as you have.

Rev,

One of the things I do agree with you is that there's a drop off in major party support, AND that's no bad thing.

I would go further to ask the question of why the Nationals, with a similar vote in the House of Reps to ON and UAP get ten seats, and the others get none. While I do see ON and UAP as batshit crazy, I do also believe that their voters shouldn't be disenfranchised. Those ten seats the Nationals got should have been three, and the other seven shared with ON and UAP...in a fair system.

Now, I know why it happened. But, crazy or not, people who voted for ON and UAP, should have a voice if things were fair.

[SBD]

Rev,

One of the things I do agree with you is that there's a drop off in major party support, AND that's no bad thing.

I would go further to ask the question of why the Nationals, with a similar vote in the House of Reps to ON and UAP get ten seats, and the others get none. While I do see ON and UAP as batshit crazy, I do also believe that their voters shouldn't be disenfranchised. Those ten seats the Nationals got should have been three, and the other seven shared with ON and UAP...in a fair system.

Now, I know why it happened. But, crazy or not, people who voted for ON and UAP, should have a voice if things were fair.

The Liberal-National coalition agreement says that they won't stand candidates against sitting members of the other party. They can both stand candidates when the member retires, I believe. So UAP and PHON would need to win against a Liberal or National first to be able to request to join the coalition.

Nationals' vote Australia-wide might be similar, but it's concentrated in the seats they had candidates. PHON and UAP stood candidates in every seat to make them look like a "real party" to help their senate candidates. Greens did the same, but at least gave some support to al their candidates.

[rev]

Maths not your strong suit? If only 5% of people voted for ON, then 95% didn't. If UAP got fewer votes, then obviously more than 95% didn't. Which of those minor parties got more than 5%? You can't add parties that disagree with each other to contradict my point. 96% of Australians think UAP are nutty. 95% think ON is. Under your logic, I ought to be able to add those together to make 191%. Nope. I wouldn't even try. Nor will I let you get away with it. You can't add them together as you have done, because Australians think they are batshit crazy for different reasons.

I clearly added up the tally for the parties you call bat shit crazy. You might not call Federation party or Lib Democrats bat shit crazy, but quite a few of their policies are very similar to UAP or PHON, but you're not calling them bat shit crazy because they don't have the public profile UAP & PHON do.

Add the percentage of the vote that they got, UAP, PHON, Australian Federartion, Liberal Democrats....then tell me my maths is wrong and it doesn't add up to just over 11% of the primary vote.

Next. Since I have never opposed the idea of voting for independents, the rest of your argument is irrelevant. Totally. Did I ever argue against Fusion or Australian Federation? Or Lambie or Wilkie for that matter? Or the Teals? So, cross those votes off your list.

Reading comprehension not your strong suit?
I didn't say you opposed the idea of voting for independents.
My argument is irrelevant? Nice way of saying you have zero. Totally.

I have no problem with voting for independents. In fact, you might recall me advocating that earlier. Thanks for the support at last.

I don't support voting independent, not sure where you got that from or why you would try and twist it, but then again you don't deal in facts.

In no way does Australians voting for independents mean they are willing to vote for the out and out mouth frothers of ON or UAP.

Nobody said that was the case.

[rev]

You mean 95% of the population and I think either ON or UAP or both are batshit crazy.

Whatever. It's now ivory tower academic for 3 years. Who knows, ON and UAP might drop inane policies and attract candidates who are sane by then. And I'm sure those pink pigs are oiled up and ready to fly too....

95% of Australians?

One Nation got 4.90% of the vote, +1.82%
United Australia Party got 4.15% of the vote, +0.72%
Liberal Democrat Party got 1.70% of the vote, +1.46%
Australian Federation Party got 0.38% of the vote

A little over 11% of voters disagree with your determination of those parties, enough so that they voted for these "bat shit crazies".

Your arguments during this election seem to constantly be at odds with the facts...now that's


The independents in total received 638,723 votes, or 5.5% of votes counted so far.
One Nation got 601,888 votes counted so far, or 4.90%.
United Australia Party 507,943 votes, Liberal Democrats 197,330, Australia Federation Party 44,743.

The bat shit crazy parties have all seen increases in support. Minor, but growing.
When Labor only got 3.8 million votes before preferences, the Liberal Party 2.8 million, the fact these "bat shit crazy" right wing populists managed to pull 1.3 million votes collectively should be a concern.
1.4 million votes to the Greens as well as the 600,000 odd that voted independents, that's a lot of unhappy people.

Belgium has announced mandatory 21 day lockdown/isolation for monkeypox.
These populist parties campaigned against lockdowns and many of the measures put in place for covid.
If that's the way the government decides to go as inevitably more countries will follow Belgium if monkeypox becomes a serious global concern, do you honestly see support for these "bat shit crazies" reducing or increasing?

Is anything in general going to improve for the average person? Cost of living going to suddenly go down? Wages/salaries suddenly going to go up? Housing going to suddenly become affordable for more people?
There's nothing remotely close to that on the horizon for the average Australian.

To write them off as "bat shit crazy" and say ridiculous shit like "95% of Australians agree with me"....that just shows you don't actually understand that millions of Australian's are fed up, some voted independent, some voted for these 'bat shit crazy' parties.

Figures are rounded off but lets look...
Labor got 3.8 million votes this election, 2019 they had 4.7 million. Negative 900,000.
Liberal got 2.8 million, 2019 they had 3.9 million. Negative 1.1 million.
LNP(QLD) got 900,000, 2019 they had 1.2 million. Negative 300,000
Nationals got 400,000, 2019 they had 600,000. Negative 200,000.
The Greens saw a minor decrease, less then 100,000 fewer votes.

Look a little further back, One Nation in 2016 had 175,020 votes. In 2013 they only managed 22,046 votes. They didn't manage to win any seats, but there's obviously plenty of support out there for them across the country and it's increasing.

But if laughing them off helps you cope, go for it. I'm sure the strategists within the Labor & Liberal parties though aren't finding it as amusing as you have.

Rev,

One of the things I do agree with you is that there's a drop off in major party support, AND that's no bad thing.

I would go further to ask the question of why the Nationals, with a similar vote in the House of Reps to ON and UAP get ten seats, and the others get none. While I do see ON and UAP as batshit crazy, I do also believe that their voters shouldn't be disenfranchised. Those ten seats the Nationals got should have been three, and the other seven shared with ON and UAP...in a fair system.

Now, I know why it happened. But, crazy or not, people who voted for ON and UAP, should have a voice if things were fair.

Nice back track attempt, but you've labelled 11% of the population as bat shit crazy because they don't agree with your political views.

[rev]

Figures are rounded off but lets look...
Labor got 3.8 million votes this election, 2019 they had 4.7 million. Negative 900,000.
Liberal got 2.8 million, 2019 they had 3.9 million. Negative 1.1 million.

This is completely incorrect.

I've told you before, pay attention and keep up. Or keep being a clown.
We're talking primary vote.
Need a calculator?

Here you go, the AEC has the same figures, mine are of course, rounded off in case that needs explaining for the special trolls like Nort.
https://results.aec.gov.au/24310/Websit ... 10-NAT.htm

Go on, tell me I'm wrong that those aren't the numbers they got in the 2019 election as a primary vote.

Counting in this election was still underway in some seats at the time of the initial post, again, since that will probably need to be explained for him as well.

And here's the 2022 results so far...
https://tallyroom.aec.gov.au/HouseState ... 66-NAT.htm

Obviously the numbers have changed with the counting still underway, which I assume most people here are intelligent enough to understand, but just in case my personal troll doesn't understand, it should be explained to save them further embarrassment.

The point that there's been a swing away from the major parties still stands. That's something that was even acknowledged during election night by the media and their political/election analyst guests.

But apparently I'm wrong when I say it. Trolls, they don't make them like they used to.

[Nort]

You're comparing complete to incomplete figures, and then trying to make something of the fact the incomplete figures are smaller.

They may well end up less, but nowhere near the extent you were claiming.

[rev]

No sense continuing trying to talk to an idiot, so moving along.

Industry Gives ALP Housing Schemes Thumbs Up

Industry groups have given the new federal Labor government’s housing policies a tick, saying they are confident that it will help tackle housing affordability.

Labor’s win on the weekend means that its housing policies may soon become a reality.

At its core is the Help to Buy scheme, which involves the federal government guaranteeing part of the purchase price of a property, with low deposits and no lenders mortgage insurance required. It would be made available to up to 10,000 people.

Corelogic research director Tim Lawless said the scheme was likely to be popular with prospective homebuyers on low to middle incomes.

“Being able to share up to 40 per cent of the purchase price with the government, along with only a small deposit and opportunity to save on lenders mortgage insurance, helps to overcome several of the hurdles of home ownership,” Lawless said.

“But we need to keep in mind buyers will still have to fund their transactional costs, including stamp duties, legal costs and bank fees.”

Lawless also raised the concern that the 10,000 places could go within the first six months, as was the case with the First Home Loan Scheme, but said that new homes had the extra deterrent of construction costs.

“Having said that, a higher interest rate environment, which may see lower prices, could make people more cautious about buying, reducing demand for the scheme in the short term,” Lawless said.

“Historically, residential transaction activity correlates with property price movements.

“Additionally, we have just been through a period of significantly elevated transaction activity, including from the first home buyer cohort, where many home purchasing decisions were likely brought forward to take advantage of the swathe of home buying grants and incentives over 2020 and 2021.”

Lawless also warned that there could be risks taking on the scheme.

“With the housing market probably heading into a downturn over the coming year or years, some buyers may find their home is worth less than the debt held against it,” Lawless said.

“It’s important to know if the government will share in the downside risk if the property is sold while in a negative equity situation.”

Also part of the ALP policy, the Regional First Home Buyer Support Scheme would add 10,000 places to the First Home Loan Deposit Scheme.

Corelogic research showed that only 33.9 per cent of Australia’s regional suburbs had a house equal in value or under the scheme’s price cap and that 71.1 per cent had units equal in value or under the price cap.

This could mean a move towards buying units rather than houses.

But regionally, house price to household income ratios are lower than in the cities while regional rent prices have outstripped the capital cities since 2017.

ACOSS chief executive Dr Cassandra Goldie said housing was the biggest living cost for Australians.

“Regional rents have risen by 18 per cent during the past two years while Commonwealth Rent Assistance hasn’t had a real increase in 20 years—and interest rate rises threaten to push many with mortgages into financial distress,” Goldie said.

“Major housing reforms, including investment in 25,000 social and affordable dwellings per year and an increase to Commonwealth Rent Assistance, are urgently needed by this government to address the growing housing crisis.”

Lawless said he also had concerns around how the NHFIC’s rebrand Housing Australia’s initiatives around affordable and social housing, and releasing government land will be funded.

“It was interesting to note Labor intends to fund some of these initiatives by applying higher fees on foreign buyer purchases,” Lawless said.

“Higher fees and costs associated with foreign buying activity comes after a recent history of substantially higher federal and state-based taxes on this buyer segment.

“In fact, this may have contributed to foreign buying approvals hitting record lows according to FIRB data [and] further disincentives for foreign buying have the potential to keep foreign purchasing at low levels, which could have a negative outcome on rental supply.”

Lawless said the initiative’s 30,000 affordable houses over five years was insufficient with recent Grattan Institute data noting that even with 100,000 extra new homes for those in need, more than two-thirds of Australians on low incomes would be in the private rental market with rent prices rising fast.

He said the limit on places for the schemes, along with income and price caps, would help prevent house prices rising.

Australian Property Professionals managing director Lloyd Edge said the unemployment rate would be the key contributor to driving up interest rates.

“A higher unemployment rate under Labor would lead to higher inflation, which in turn would speed up further interest rate rises,” Edge said.

“It is more important than ever that home buyers prepare themselves for a series of rate hikes by borrowing under their maximum capacity and not biting off more than they can afford.

“Otherwise, we will see a lot of distressed sellers.”

With the ALP focused on housing and with no tax reform policies on the agenda, Burgess Rawson’s chief executive Ingrid Filmer said she was confident that commercial property demand would continue.

“The incoming government is welcomed as it’s unlikely to have a major bearing on the commercial property market,” Filmer said.

“Even rising inflation and interest rates so far have had little impact on buyer demand and prices.”

https://www.theurbandeveloper.com/artic ... g-policies

[Nort]

No sense continuing trying to talk to an idiot, so moving along.

Fair, let's make it interesting hey.

If on final count Labor has lost almost a million votes as you said I will never post on SA again.

If it ends up being in the five digits or less, you admit you're throwing stats around in a meaningless way.