News & Discussion: Adelaide Metro Trains

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AG
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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1381 Post by AG » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:45 pm

Tonsley213 wrote:It's points out the suburb.
Read the map a little bit closer - it says "Mile End Station".

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1382 Post by PeFe » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:52 pm

AG is right - the map is wrong. Mile End station is incorrectly positioned it should read Keswick Station on the map.
Also moderators this discussion should be its own topic in Visions and Suggestions as it is not really part of of electrification and re-sleepering.

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1383 Post by jk1237 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:28 am

PeFe wrote:Perth did it right..added 1 extra station(Esplanade) in the southern CBD and that was it. An extra 4 stations between North Tce and the western parklands is overkill. We are talking about a commuter railway system moving large numbers of people from the outer suburbs and besides the Adelaide CBD is either north/south (ie King William St) or east/west (East End/Grenfell/Currie/Hindley St West End)
High patronage transport routes need to follow this pattern. Trams and buses can provide alternative connections to your destination or you could actually .....walk.
nonsense, the whole idea is that more of the CBD is within walking distance to a train station. Only a small part of our CBD is walking distance of our current station and its no surprises we have the lowest patronage. Would you rather the extra 30 seconds of "all that bother" of the train stopping at a nearby train station compared to the 20 minute+ walking/bus process of getting from our current railway station to Hindmarsh Sq for example. Think I would put up with the 4 extra stops of the train. The route is exactly what I would want, a station in between the east end of Rundle Mall and North Tce (Pulteney St), a station at the south end of Hindmarsh Sq, one at Victoria Sq, and possibly one near Moonta St Mall under Grote St, then to connect up with the lines at Keswick

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1384 Post by [Shuz] » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:10 am

Jk,

You can walk between Rundle mall and Hindmarsh sq, the two are literally 100m apart! :S
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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1385 Post by Howie » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:07 am

The ABC News report in case you missed it.


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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1386 Post by jk1237 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:24 am

[Shuz] wrote:Jk,

You can walk between Rundle mall and Hindmarsh sq, the two are literally 100m apart! :S
yes but I was thinking more a station closer to North Tce (to serve the uni's and Rundle Mall east/Street) and next one closer to Pirie St. The Toronto subway has stations very close together in their downtown, but then spaced more apart when it leaves their downtown

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1387 Post by rhino » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:38 am

PeFe, I fail to see how a city loop add 10 minutes to a trip, if the alternative is to get off the train and either walk or change trains or transport modes (which includes waiting for the train/bus/tram)? I'm sure many many more commuters will be using the loop to access different parts of the city, than would be using it to go straight through from the Gawler line on to the Seaford line, therefore it would be a time saver, not a time waster, for the vast majority of people.
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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1388 Post by AG » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:27 am

Consider the operational aspects as well. The current terminus is not very efficient in its operation or how it serves the city. Trains terminate there and sit idle before commencing journeys in the opposite direction. By having the underground link, it reduces the number of trains required to terminate in the city and improves the efficiency of the network. This was the primary influencing factor behind the planning of the City Loop in Melbourne during the 1970s

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1389 Post by PeFe » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:30 pm

Rhino wrote
PeFe, I fail to see how a city loop add 10 minutes to a trip, if the alternative is to get off the train and either walk or change trains or transport modes (which includes waiting for the train/bus/tram)? I'm sure many many more commuters will be using the loop to access different parts of the city, than would be using it to go straight through from the Gawler line on to the Seaford line, therefore it would be a time saver, not a time waster, for the vast majority of people.
The city loop "adding 10 minutes" to train journeys was a reference to the Sydney City Circle and the Melbourne City loop. I am in favour of a CBD underground train line....just not such an awkward alignment. The DTEI proposal seeks to connect the Gawler Seaford lines by turning a north south train line into an east west train line for a very short distance and connecting to existing lines at the closest locations.
I would prefer an alignment straight down King William St. At least their proposal only constructs 2 new train stations in the CBD - Hindmarsh Square and Victoria Square. The location of Adelaide station is really another issue - neither centrally located next to the shopping (Rundle Mall) or business area (Grenfell/Currie/Waymouth) nor centred on the up and coming north west city precinct (RAH and Uni SA City West campus). For example in the future you have caught the train in from Seaford to do a bit of shopping in Rundle Mall in which station do you get out? Adelaide or Hindmarsh Square? I suppose it depends on which end of Rundle Mall you want. Same if you work at the new RAH you catch the train to Adelaide and then walk or catch the tram. Yes this just a proposal and it might not be built for 30 years but I think the Adelaide of 2040 deserves a better alignment than the DTEI one.
Last edited by PeFe on Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1390 Post by rhino » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:04 pm

PeFe wrote: The DTEI proposal seeks to connect the Gawler Seaford lines by turning a north south train line into an east west train line for a very short distance and connecting to existing lines at the closet locations.
So what? The main thing is that you can come in from the north or south and get off the train at a city station closest to the part of the city that you want to visit. From this point of view a loop makes far more sense than at straight line through the city, because, as I said before, the vast majority of the commuters will not want to be travelling through the city, but rather to various stations within the city.

(and closet locations?) :)
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Rhino

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1391 Post by Zills » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:32 pm

Good to the the government warming to the city loop. i agree, that alignment looks awkward, but maybe it keeps open the option to connect this to the obahn track, which just may see heavy rail traffic someday. I think a hindmarsh square stop would be good too instead of a rundle stop. call me crazy, i think it could work well.

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1392 Post by Nort » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:17 pm

zills_86 wrote:Good to the the government warming to the city loop. i agree, that alignment looks awkward, but maybe it keeps open the option to connect this to the obahn track, which just may see heavy rail traffic someday. I think a hindmarsh square stop would be good too instead of a rundle stop. call me crazy, i think it could work well.
I reckon a Hindmarsh Square stop would work better than a Rundle Mall Stop as well. At the moment when people think of Rundle Mall they instinctively think of the Myer Center end, but in the longer term the entire mall should be a destination, and a Hindmarsh Square stop is close to both the mall and Rundle Street.

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1393 Post by Reb-L » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:40 pm

A railway - be it suburban or not - is not the same as a tram. The rail system cannot have stops every hundred meters or turn around street corners (even underground) if it's to be efficient. Trams and buses are much better at that. A train could almost be half the length of Rundle Mall and before you could get it up to speed you'd have to step on the brakes for the next stop. Yes, an underground train loop would be nice, and planning for it doesn't hurt, but in the meantime how about fixing up the stations we've already got? Some of them look like the last stop before Siberia.

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1394 Post by AG » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:53 pm

I don't really see what the fuss is about between a Rundle Mall/Pulteney Street versus a Hindmarsh Square stop. A station isn't something that occupies a tiny point in space, they are large underground structures. An underground platform for a 6-car train is nearly 150m long, so a station could well be designed so that a southern exit leads to Hindmarsh Square and a northern one leads into the mall - they call these things underground passages and most underground stations have them. Place the station too far north, and the alignment required to bring the tracks from an east-west direction into a north-south one becomes questionable due to the minimum possible radius on track curves (thinking technical now).

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Re: Electrification and Resleepering of suburban rail networ

#1395 Post by Nort » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:42 pm

Reb-L wrote: A train could almost be half the length of Rundle Mall and before you could get it up to speed you'd have to step on the brakes for the next stop.
That happens plenty of times on the Paris Metro or the London Underground.

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