[COM] South Road Superway | $842m | 3km

[SRW]

can anyone access the article in the Australian today which suggests the Government ignored adivce from a internal department on the superway?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 6586383231

I don't have the access..

Quick tip: to bypass The Australian's paywall, just google search the article header and click back through to The Australian. They allow their news articles to be accessible through search.

http://goo.gl/UWXGn

[Waewick]

can anyone access the article in the Australian today which suggests the Government ignored adivce from a internal department on the superway?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 6586383231

I don't have the access..

Quick tip: to bypass The Australian's paywall, just google search the article header and click back through to The Australian. They allow their news articles to be accessible through search.

http://goo.gl/UWXGn

Thanks

Agency warned SA Transport Department not to proceed with $860m project

by: Sarah Martin
From: The Australian
February 27, 2013 12:00AM

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SOUTH Australia's Labor government ignored advice from its Integrated Design Commission not to build an $860 million, 20m-high Superway in Adelaide's north.

Former IDC commissioner Tim Horton yesterday told The Australian his now-disbanded agency had warned the Transport Department not to proceed with the project.

This came in advice to the state government on the elevated road, which was built with $500m in federal stimulus funds.

"We outlined our concerns with elevated roads which have been demonstrated around the world to be unsuccessful and a poor contribution to cities," Mr Horton said.

"We highlighted numerous examples where cities are paying to have them pulled down. Elevated roads don't work."

Mr Horton's comments came after The Australian revealed yesterday that the 5km road was built up to 20m high to allow double-stacked trains, which are unlikely to ever use the rail line, to pass underneath.
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The state government claimed the height of the structure was necessary to allow clearance for the trains, and to create an "elegant and striking" structure.

The Integrated Design Commission was launched by former Labor premier Mike Rann in 2009 to ensure development and infrastructure investment was "better co-ordinated and of the highest quality, not something that we, or our children, will regret later".

The state Labor government said the commissioner's role was critical for advising on "the biggest road building rollout in our history".

Mr Horton said his advice to the government's South Road Superway project team and the Department of Transport, overseen by then minister Patrick Conlon, was ignored.

"Transport investment can be an investment in renewal if done right, and it can be a recipe for long-term degradation if done poorly," he said. The reply from the state government was "muted", he said.

[rhino]

So are there plans somewhere, to turn the suburbs through which the Superway runs, into residential suburbs? If not, I don't believe that the elevated road is going to create a "wrong side of the tracks" stigma for the industries around it. There is a good case for not elevating roads through residentia, but through industria, not so much IMO.

[drsmith]

At least we know now why it was built and to be built so high,

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 6585441751

It received a $500m federal Nation Building grant and is the single biggest road investment in South Australia's history. Sources say the height of the South Road Superway was based on forecast demand from the now-shelved $27 billion Olympic Dam mine expansion requiring double-stacked trains.

No Olympic Dam and did it need to be so high ?

The South Australian Freight Council, which supported the massive investment, said the future freight plan for the northern connecter would divert the rail line north of the overpass.

"The longer-term plan is that the track is not required (to go under the superway)," SA Freight Council chief executive Neil Murphy said.

"There is a distinct possibility that it will not ever need to take a double-stacked train underneath it."

Putting the recent discussion into context, the implications for the Northern Connector are telling.

The Superway project, which was visited by federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese last week, comprises more than 3000 segments cast from 41,000 truckloads of cement. It is designed to form part of a longer north-south corridor, but the state government said last week it had no funds for the remaining construction work.

The Northern Connector project I imagine would have also been based on the Olympic Dam expansion.

Poor initial planning of the Northern Connector itself has clearly cost SA dearly in terms of the cost of the Superway. This, in conjunction with the loss of the Oylmpic Dam expansion clearly puts a big question mark over the Northern Connector project. To make matters worse for SA, The WA government it putting in its own bid for federal funding as part of its own Northern Connector project as part of its election campaign.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/full-c ... or-bypass/

The Northern Connector Road engineers might be reduced to sharpening their pencils for a simple widening of the Sailsbury Highway to 6 lanes.

[knackers]

Roll on elections state and federal will only vote Labour or Liberal state and fed if they have Balls too commit funding to start south road from regency to anzac highway.not the northern connecter . i see this part is more inportant in my opinion.

[neoballmon]

Even if double stacked trains were expected, I can't see why the whole structure is 20m high. It could have been a standard height from Days to Cormack and then raised the extra from there. Or better yet, since they knew the Northern Connector was a possibly, left the whole thing at a standard height and tunneled the rail line under ground if the time came to double stack trains. I'm sure this still would have been considerably cheaper

[drsmith]

At least the construction is on track, both in terms of time and cost.

http://designbuildsource.com.au/sa-to-g ... nd-of-year

[rhino]

.

"We outlined our concerns with elevated roads which have been demonstrated around the world to be unsuccessful and a poor contribution to cities," Mr Horton said.

"We highlighted numerous examples where cities are paying to have them pulled down. Elevated roads don't work."

From http://designbuildsource.com.au/sa-to-g ... nd-of-year

While the high water table ruled out any idea of going underground, it was thought road widening would have too great an impact on adjacent land and businesses, disrupt traffic to a greater degree and create too many limitations regarding access during construction

[Reb-L]

A couple of things:

1) The Fed Govt paid for most of it - don't think this road would've gone ahead at all otherwise
2) It might be higher than necessary at the moment - but isn't it possible that ODX or some other projects might need easy access to Pt Adelaide in the future?
3) I don't understand the argument that an elevated road divides an area more than a busy level road - have you tried to cross South Rd during peak hour on foot, on a bicycle or by car?

What would the alternative be? A tunnel below South Rd would be nice but I don't think that would be any cheaper. Mr. Horton's comments about elevated roads in other parts of the world do not correspond with what I've seen - I think Adelaide is one of the most 'single level' cities of its size I know.

[rhino]

I don't understand the argument that an elevated road divides an area more than a busy level road

It is pretty rare to see an elevated road through a well-to-do suburb. They cause both visual and noise pollution. Thus, the belief that an elevated road will bring down property values in the suburbs they traverse, and in doing so, divides the community. "We need an elevated road to get us there faster!" "Not through my suburb!"

Having said that, see my post a few above re elevated roads through residentia vs elevated roads through industria. Two very different things.

[Aidan]

Even if double stacked trains were expected, I can't see why the whole structure is 20m high. It could have been a standard height from Days to Cormack and then raised the extra from there.

Is there a standard height for elevated highways?

Or better yet, since they knew the Northern Connector was a possibly, left the whole thing at a standard height and tunneled the rail line under ground if the time came to double stack trains. I'm sure this still would have been considerably cheaper

Not if you consider the extra drainage costs. Also IIRC the railway gradients were limited to 1 in 200 so they don't need multiple locomotives to get heavy freight trains to the port. Adjusting its level would probably steepen the gradients.

You seem to be under the false impression that a 20m high structure is needed to get over double stacked freight trains - but the height of the trains is well under half that.

[rev]

One attention seeking article, and people bite...

No Olympic Dam and did it need to be so high ?

I think you mean no Olympic Dam expansion..because Olympic Dam is very real.

Here's a quick factoid for you drsmith. The Super Way was well underway when it was decided not to proceed with the current plans for OD expansion.

Olympic Dam will be expanded one day. Do you want to know why? It's simple...there's a shit load more mineral resources there.
BHP is a business. Their business is to make money from extracting and selling these mineral resources.

Had they not built it high enough, at some stage in the future people like you would then complain that the government at the time had no vision and foresight.

[claybro]

Having spent an hour in traffic on South Road today, words just fail me here. All this over a 5km stretch of road in the easiest flatest part of an industrial area. Imagine when we get to building through the hard parts.(I did say imagine). Wrong route, too high, to low, too much disruption. Too many trees chopped down. Too expensive. At this point I would not care if the government borrowed 20 billion at 10 percent from the Greeks and built a 10 lane freeway on stilts 10 storeys high. Just build a bloody freeway. Above ground, below ground, I dont care, just DO SOMETHING. Unfortunately for rest of my working life, I will be confined to the daily grind.

There, Ifeel better now....until tomorrow.

[drsmith]

I think you mean no Olympic Dam expansion..because Olympic Dam is very real.

You're reading too much from a single line. It's quiet clear from my post as a whole that I'm referring to the expansion.

I'm not against the project as a whole and I haven't attempt to comvey that. It's clear though that the excessive height of the Superway is a product of poor planning.

The shelving of the expansion is significant in the context of the Northern Connector which was the other point I was attempting to convey.

[Brando]

You may call it poor planning, I would call it foresight.

This is a heavy Industrial area and major freight route. Height and width of loads transported will no doubt increase in the future. Access and maneurerablity for local businesses has been taken into consideration.

We can all argue the cost, length, location etc, but let's move along now........