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Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:07 pm
by ColonelFlashLight
Norman wrote:While I'm keeping out of this debate, the South Road/Anzac Highway intersection works is actually more like $115m.
Norman I was referring to the underpass only, not the entire South Road project. I believe the $115m includes the cost of the 600m tunnel between Grange and Port Roads. See:
http://www.ezyreg.sa.gov.au/transport_n ... ue%201.pdf
Unless of course the budget has blown out to double, which knowing this government, wouldn't surprise me either.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:38 pm
by JamesXander
What a douche. The fact he is making it a hospital Vs Stadium fight is just petty.
GRRR. My family is all Liberal, I guess I'll be joining the ranks with em.
CARN MARTY. Roll the tanks in and kick Rann'ies arse.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:08 am
by monotonehell
While it's been made clear over the past few months that MHS has no real vision himself, nor any idea of the budgets required and plans to make things happen, Rann's ultimatum today annoys me. I hope he's not listening to some biased poll that says he has 90% support for the hospital. I don't think that that is true.
But what annoys me more is that instead of taking the responsible line of justifying the use of the site as a hospital, or opening up the investigation of alternative sites for review (if such a review was undertaken) - he's made this childish "one of the other" ultimatum. I guess that's what comes of having MHS in opposition.
It's not a "one or the other" situation. We need a new hospital / IMVS / educational / research complex now and into the future, so YES that needs to come before a stadium in a budget sense. Yes the railyards site is perfect for such a complex, and yes rebuilding such a complex on the current RAH site would be a costly compromise to a proper facility, but I'm sure that there's other sites just as suitable. If not TELL us why not. AND AFTER we get the hospital complex organised we can look into the entertainment precinct, where it can go, how far into the future we need to start building it and so on.
Come on Mr Rann, don't play MHS's childish game. You have a whole government administration working for us, they would be preparing reports a plenty for you, YOU have the information that answers these questions the public's putting to you. Make it known. The reason why the electorate's annoyed with you is that you're not communicating.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:58 am
by ozisnowman
MHS mentioned that at the cost of the planned Marj hospital we can
have a new redeveloped Royal Adelaide Hospital at its current site
and a new Stadium over the rail yards. Sort of two for the price of
one. The amount of money would be the same as building the Marj
so its not like he is coming up with some pie in the sky plan which
cant be funded...
What the Rann government fails to disclose to the public is how much the
Marj which will be funded by private-public and probably be leased by
the government from a private firm etc will cost the future generations
of south australian's in lease payment etc... What we may end up with
is a financial burden that then limits our ability to fund other much needed
infrastructure.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:44 am
by monotonehell
ozisnowman wrote:MHS mentioned that at the cost of the planned Marj hospital we can
have a new redeveloped Royal Adelaide Hospital at its current site
and a new Stadium over the rail yards. Sort of two for the price of
one. The amount of money would be the same as building the Marj
so its not like he is coming up with some pie in the sky plan which
cant be funded...
I find that extremely hard to believe. I'd like to see some reasonably firm figures. Rebuilding the RAH would involve a lot of pain as you'd need to relocate a lot of facilities, knock down several parts of it and build a new building in their place. Then repeat with the next stage until the whole thing is done. Considering that there's not enough space at the current site in total - where would the relocated facilities go while the stages are being built? It would be far better to start from scratch and build a proper facility that can house the hospital, Adelaide Uni facilities, research labs and IMVS.
ozisnowman wrote:What the Rann government fails to disclose to the public is how much the
Marj which will be funded by private-public and probably be leased by
the government from a private firm etc will cost the future generations
of south australian's in lease payment etc... What we may end up with
is a financial burden that then limits our ability to fund other much needed
infrastructure.
That's a moot point because we need these facilities anyway, and any PPP will be of a similar cost to the tax payer. Maybe not on the railyards, but we NEED a new hospital and associated teaching, research facilities.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:12 pm
by urban
Another alternative is to not increase the Urban Growth Boundary and use the billions saved in reduced infrastructure and servicing costs to buy a couple of city blocks for the new hospital (UniSA City West style) and build a multi-purpose stadium and entertainment precinct on the railyards. The land at West Lakes could (if designed and planned properly) then be used for housing a large number of the people who would otherwise be forced to the suburban fringes.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:12 pm
by omada
Colonelflashlight wrote:Firstly, let's remember we are paying for this $2 billion hospital. This is paid for by South Australians, every time we earn and every time we spend. The RAH could be upgraded to a world class hospital at a cost of only $1 billion, a difference of a billion dollars! Let's put that into perspective. The South Road/Anzac Highway underpass budget is $65 million.
Colonel, just where are you getting this $1 billion figure from?
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:18 pm
by kenget
ColonelFlashLight wrote:I have been reading posts on Sen-ADL for months and til now I've remained a reader only. But I must break my silence on this issue.
Firstly, let's remember we are paying for this $2 billion hospital. This is paid for by South Australians, every time we earn and every time we spend. The RAH could be upgraded to a world class hospital at a cost of only $1 billion, a difference of a billion dollars! Let's put that into perspective. The South Road/Anzac Highway underpass budget is $65 million.
We could have a world class Royal Adelaide Hospital and the equivalent of 15 more projects like the Anzac Highway underpass to help fix Adelaide's road system.
Or maybe a world class Royal Adelaide Hospital and a world class multi-purpose sports stadium, capable of holding AFL games, FIFA World Cup games etc.
We, as voters in South Australia should demand that the government spends OUR money wisely. An investment into an entertainment precinct would change Adelaide's image for the better. Yes, Adelaide is a conservative city. Yes, Adelaide is a city with a higher than average age population. But no, Adelaide does not have to be a boring city that builds unnecessary hospitals on prime waterfront land.
Mr Rann, there is a difference between investing in healthcare and blind spending. Adelaideans are telling you in black and white (both in these forums and in the convincing percentages of the voting section of the abovementioned AdelaideNow article) that the voters of South Australia don't want your Marj Hospital in that location. If you must, build it elsewhere, but do not wait for the next election to be convinced this hospital is a bad idea and a misuse of our tax dollars.
I like your post but a couple of things I disagree on. Firstly, the hospital is being down as costing $1.7 billion, now this will not just be used up by tax payers money. It is down as a Public-Private Partnership meaning that whoever the government chooses, will put forward a large quantity of money to fund it. Secondly, it may very well cost a lot of money to fix up the current RAH to make it world class, but how many years will it be after that until more money is needed to be spent on it?
Its a shame that this will come down to a choice, how fantastic would it be to get an entertainment precinct and new world class hospital built. I think the Rann government has enabled this state to economically perform a complete U-turn and I love how much investment has been made to infrastructure. Lets cross our fingers and hopefully the majority of the SA people will get what they want.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:49 pm
by wilkiebarkid
Is that $1.7 billion at todays money? I believe the original completion date is somewhere around 2016, which would suggest that there would be an incredible blowout by then. Perhaps a final cost of $4.0 billion.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:58 pm
by Shuz
Very rough guess, but inflation doubles every 7-8years. So yes, by 2016 the final cost will be equivalent to $3.5b + cost blowouts.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:37 pm
by Cruise
What do you need more? a hospital or a stadium?
(this question should be not confused with what you want more)
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:02 pm
by urban
Cruise wrote:What do you need more? a hospital or a stadium?
(this question should be not confused with what you want more)
That is an over simplification of the question.
The simplest you can get the question (and this still does not do the debate justice) is what does the state need more a new hospital or an entertainment precinct and a reworked hospital?
Remember both items don't have to happen at the same time. The problem with the proposed hospital location is that it locks out future redevelopment of the railyards.
If we don't have a vibrant city that will attract new workers we might not be able to afford to run the hospital in the future so perhaps we need the stadium more.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:34 pm
by Edgar
MHS and his Liberals are selfish, childish, and incompetent.
When they are on the edge of losing strengths and support, they always come up with stupid comments in their speech. Look at the way he talks, that to me, doesn't sound very professional to begin with. Nor does it sounds like it is going to do his vision any justice under that impression.
If he were eager enough to fight for support, come up with a better report for plans and the financial side of things. Not just talk and some drawings, hoping they would be enough to win votes.
And to Rann, I truly thought he had a good vision for Adelaide, but joining the bandwagon with MHS childish game is a silly action. If he thinks that a new hospital is far more beneficial in the long run, convince us. It really isn't that hard if you want to win respect and support. Convince is the way to go, same goes to MHS.
But in the meantime, I am standing on the fence, both of them have not been convincing enough.
And just a general information on rebuilding the current RAH, that will not happen. It has been reported and proven that it will be far more efficient and cost effective to just rebuild a brand new hospital than to rebuild the old one. Even if you choose to rebuild, you still need relocation, and re-relocated back, might as well build a new one, and relocate everything at once, everything is new, and it will be a better hospital.
And as to sports/entertainment precinct over the railyards, one should refer to monotohell for advice, because he has proved that building a stadium on top of the rails are not possible with a limited budget.
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:51 pm
by Wayno
We have to remember this was "The Advertiser" reporting on this story. They WANT to oversimplify the situation. They WANT to polarise people. They WANT you to get upset - it creates lots of "letters to the editor" and sells newspapers. They ARE a bunch of sensationalist f-wits...
Re: Article: Rann's Hospital vs MHS Entertainment Precinct
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:11 pm
by cruel_world00
Wayno wrote:We have to remember this was "The Advertiser" reporting on this story. They WANT to oversimplify the situation. They WANT to polarise people. They WANT you to get upset - it creates lots of "letters to the editor" and sells newspapers. They ARE a bunch of sensationalist f-wits...
This is also VERY true.