[COM] Adelaide Oval Redevelopment

[contractor]

How can Melbourne's new Bubble Stadium cost $270 million, yet a redevelopment at Adelaide Oval will cost over $450 million

[monotonehell]

How can Melbourne's new Bubble Stadium cost $270 million, yet a redevelopment at Adelaide Oval will cost over $450 million

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/aami-p ... 5864011496

[skyliner]

How can Melbourne's new Bubble Stadium cost $270 million, yet a redevelopment at Adelaide Oval will cost over $450 million

Because ours is bigger and better?! We get a bridge too! (of course a patroitic and uninformed comment).

ADELAIDE - TOWARDS A GREATER CITY SKLINE

[contractor]

How can Melbourne's new Bubble Stadium cost $270 million, yet a redevelopment at Adelaide Oval will cost over $450 million

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/aami-p ... 5864011496

A brand new stadium, in $US but probably closer to the mark given that the government will contribute $450 million....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Mabhida_Stadium

[Ho Really]

[...]

It will be interesting to see how the cricket and football oval of 190m x 125m is modified to allow good viewing of a soccer pitch of 105m x 70m.

[...]

Remember that soccer pitches can vary between 105m x 69m to 110m x 75m in size. Try viewing the action from the north and south!! Especially the north where there will be no grandstand!! I have said it before, and I'll say it again, if Adelaide wants World Cup soccer they'll need a purpose-built, FIFA-compliant rectangular stadium (which can also be used for rugby) with a minimum capacity of 40,000 seats under cover.

Cheers

[Ho Really]

Again sorry for being negative.

Cheers

[Waewick]

[...]

It will be interesting to see how the cricket and football oval of 190m x 125m is modified to allow good viewing of a soccer pitch of 105m x 70m.

[...]

Remember that soccer pitches can vary between 105m x 69m to 110m x 75m in size. Try viewing the action from the north and south!! Especially the north where there will be no grandstand!! I have said it before, and I'll say it again, if Adelaide wants World Cup soccer they'll need a purpose-built, FIFA-compliant rectangular stadium (which can also be used for rugby) with a minimum capacity of 40,000 seats under cover.
Cheers

quite frankly you can keep saying but that isn't going to change the fact that if Aust gets the WC games will be played at Adelaide Oval.....

[stumpjumper]

Here are some relative costs (all amts in current AUD) source www.wembleystadium.com:

Wembley Stadium (all new, partially closable roof)

Capacity, Total Cost, Cost per seat

90000 AUD$582,532,333 $6472


Adelaide

Cost = Western Grandstand: $50,000,000 + ‘phase 2’: $450,000,000

Capacity, Total Cost, Cost per seat

46,000 $500,000,000 $10,869

If there is a $100,000,000 blowout:

46,000 $600,000,000 $13,043


ANZ Stadium, Homebush, Sydney. Presently open, with a retractable roof proposed with extra seats for FIFA World Cup - extra cost $100,000,000

Capacity, Total Cost, Cost per seat

83,500 $460,764,331 $5518 ($6230 per seat after renovations)


Munich (partially enclosed)

Capacity, Total Cost, Cost per seat

69,000 $ 410,114,905 $6213


Sapporo Dome (fully enclosed, air cond, interchangeable natural and artificial surfaces, able to make snow surface)

Capacity, Total Cost, Cost per seat

42,122 $406,346,863 $9646



And Rann's response last month to blowouts:

Advertiser April 7 2010

SA Premier Mike Rann has capped the State Government's commitment to any redevelopment of Adelaide Oval for AFL football at $450 million.
"It's $450 million - and not a penny more,” said Mr Rann today ruling out the government underwriting any cost over-runs at Adelaide Oval.

Mr Rann also ruled out any extension from the June 30 deadline handed to the Stadium Management Authority.

[AtD]

Did you include construction materials and labour inflation (as opposed to general CPI) in your comparisons across time and purchasing power parity and real wages in your comparisons across countries?

[Stubbo]

I am probably coming at this from a rather simplistic and uninformed angle, BUT, if the new western stand costs approximately $95 mill, the new stadium in Melbourne cost $270 mill, couldn't (for the reported $450 mill) a dedicated rectangle stadium be built utilise $300 mill, leaving $150 to play with improving Adelaide Oval?

Once a Rectangle Stadium is built, surely Hindmarsh would need to be sold, and the money raised could then be funelled into further improvement of Adelaide Oval, along with any money made with selling land surrounding AAMI Stadium?

That way, rectangle stadium is built, any money left over + money raised from selling Hindmarsh can go into Adelaide Oval.

I watched the Engineering Connections show on Wembley Stadium and if that was built for cost as posted above, geez, what do we do with our money, spend it on advisers, consultants? The new Wembley stadium is amazing in terms of design, statement and functionality (from what I saw).

[Briggzy_03]

What would an extra $250 million in funding make? I dare say a capacity boost to 60,000 at least.

Adelaide Oval secures funds boost as part of $2.8bn federal oval upgrade pledge

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/soc ... 5867010520

THE Federal Government has guaranteed Adelaide Oval will be upgraded as part of a $2.8 billion national commitment to provide 12 stadiums as part of Australia's drive to host the football World Cup in either 2018 or 2022.

Football Federation Australia chairman Frank Lowy last night presented the formal 750-page bid book to FIFA president Sepp Blatter in Zurich, Switzerland.

The Australian proposal included plans for three new stadiums in Perth, Canberra and Blacktown in Sydney's western suburbs.

Major upgrades have been promised in Adelaide, Gold Coast, Geelong, Newcastle and Townsville. The Sydney Football Stadium, Stadium Australia, Suncorp in Brisbane and the Melbourne Cricket Ground require only minor upgrades or already meet FIFA requirements.

In the FFA's document, it states it has "unequivocal support from all levels of government".

"Without exception all capital works funding has been secured."

Mr Lowy said yesterday if Australia hosted the World Cup, much-improved sporting infrastructure would be a legacy.

"This nationwide hosting proposal means millions of sports fans across the country will be able to enjoy the biggest and most exciting sporting event in the world, in wonderful new or upgraded stadiums in their own cities," he said.

The bid book has earmarked an improved Adelaide Oval to host group stage matches as well as a round of 16 game and a quarter final. The World Cup final would be held at either Sydney's Stadium Australia or at the MCG.

The State Government has already pledged at least $450 million to help fund the redevelopment of the Adelaide Oval, to a 50,000-seat stadium capable of hosting World Cup matches.

However, State Treasurer Kevin Foley this week appeared to leave open the possibility that the state could increase its investment. Mr Foley said depending on the options presented by the Stadium Management Authority, a body created by football's SANFL and cricket's SACA to resolve ground-sharing issues, it could be more than $450 million.

The Federal Government has so far declined to reveal how much it would contribute to the oval's rejuvenation but some sources have said it could be as much as $250 million if Australia won the right to host the World Cup.

Australia was one of nine bidders to last night present their technical bid books to FIFA outlining why they should host a World Cup in 2018 or 2022.

Other countries to have made presentations last night were England, who had David Beckham present their case, Russia, and joint bids from Spain-Portugal and Holland-Belgium. Other bidders include Qatar, Japan, South Korea and the United States. It is thought FIFA is keen for the World Cup to be played in Europe in 2018, with England the favourite, leaving Australia to battle for the 2022 tournament.

FIFA will announce its decision on both tournaments in December, with officials expected to inspect facilities in all competing countries between July and September.

In its bid book, Australia is selling itself as a "safe pair of hands" when hosting major sporting events, pointing to the success of the 2000 Sydney Olympics.

It also emphasises Australia's multicultural nature, with almost one-quarter of the population born overseas.

"In the most recent census, more than 270 ancestries were identified by Australia's population, making Australia the ideal home-away-from-home for every FIFA World Cup participating member association," it says.

But, importantly from a FIFA point of view, the Australian document emphasises the commercial sense of hosting a World Cup in the Asian region.

It says at the 2006 World Cup in Germany, there was a cumulative television audience of almost nine billion people in Asia, which it says was equivalent to the combined audiences in Europe and Latin America.

"By 2020, Asia's population is expected to be four times that of North America and Europe combined," it says. "Importantly there are now more middle-class consumers in Asia than in the western world and their purchasing power will increase as this number grows."

[rev]

AFL boss says all is going well, agreement will be reached soon.
FFA now confirms the Federal government will contribute to the redevelopment and AO will meet FIFA requirements, as part of the 2018/2022 World Cup bid. Bid's been placed, formally now.
So we have $450 million from the State government, and potentially $250 million(if not more, or less) from the Federal government.
FIFA reps will visit the stadia proposed to hold the matches, and will more then likely(logically) see what the new Adelaide Oval will look like, probably before we do.

Am I the only one curious to see stumpjumpers conspiracy theory take on this about how the Rann government, SANFL/SACA are just lying to us and there is no intention to do anything?

[ozisnowman]

There is no way the northern hill with the fig trees and heritage listed scoreboard will meet FIFA Standard...
Either you upgrade this stadium to look similar all way around and of world class or if the fig tree and scoreboard is
more important then you leave it for cricket and build a multi-purpose stadium elsewhere...

They need to build a proper stadium not a bandaid hot potch.

[stumpjumper]

'Conspiracy theory" is a handy derogatory phrase which is used to discredit any opposing argument. 'Communist', 'Nazi' etc are similar loaded terms which have been used for the same purpose.

I'm not suggesting that there is any conspiracy. Nor am I privy to the Cabinet/sports boards discussions which led to the '$450 million" proposal.

However, as a taxpayer and citizen of SA. I have some questions:

- For a start, I wonder about the priority of spending this money on Adelaide Oval when there are so many other claims on public funds. The decision may be quite supportable, but no rationale or business case has been put forward.

- For a project involving $450 million of taxpayers money, given to a group of eight people to spend, there is insufficient transparency. As an example, we are told first that the sum available for the whole project is $450 million. Then we are told that the footbridge, costed by someone at $20 million, is excluded from the $450 mill. Now it seems that the unknown debt of SACA (said to be $90 million) is to be paid by part of the $450 million. If that's the case, SACA should be dragging as much expenditure into its current debt column as possible. Who knows - as I said, where is the transparency? Perhaps the government will also pay off the debts of Choco's Team of Heroes at the Sacred Alberton Site.

- Kevin Foley claimed on ABC radio this week that he was 'in charge of the project', meaning possibly that the eight man AOSMA reports to him, or to Treasury. Foley as joint head with Rann of DefenceSA was in charge of Techport, which ran $120 million over its budget of $120 million, and also took responsibility, at the outset at least, of the Newport Quays development, now over two years behind schedule with no sign of a restart or of the 2,000 jobs for ten years it was supposed to produce. My point is whether Foley, or Treasury, is equipped or competent to deliver large projects. Foley has no qualifications and certainly no track record in project management. Perhaps we need to reintroduce the Public Buildings Department/SACON/Asset Management Division as a project manager for government funded projects. We have an Office of Major Projects and Infrastructure, run by Rod Hook. That office mainly oversees transport projects, but it is also responsible for the Premier's Adelaide Film and Screen Centre, the State Aquatic Centre and the GP Plus Health Care Centre. Why can't its specialised project managers look after the public interest in the Adelaide Oval redevelopment?

- The available figures seem to indicate that we will end up with a very expensive 'stadium' which is not ideal for any sport, when for the same budget we could have had a highly flexible rectangular arena optimised for soccer and an upgraded AFL and cricket oval at Adelaide Oval.

So there's my conspiracy theory. I'm not against better facilities for soccer, football or cricket. What I'm saying is that we're going about it in a very expensive, non-transparent and possibly ineffective way.

ozisnowman, I couldn't agree more.

rev, we may yet see the $450 million project come to nothing, if the project is in fact dependant on Australia getting the WC in 2018 or 2022 (although whether or not there is any dependance is not clear). If it were up to me, I'd be building a rectangular arena regardless. Adelaide Oval will be fine for SANFL and cricket, and AFL as well if necessary with the present Western Grandstand redevelopment, while $450 million is plenty for a new rectangular arena elsewhere.

[flavze]

there's no reason why the hill will impact on FIFA standard tbh, if there is enough seating within the accepted FIFA sightlines then it's a simple matter of not allowing people to access the hill during a game as FIFA don't allow standing room.

On 5AA today one of the hosts reckons he has seen costing that puts the rebuild for a WC acceptable stadium at AO as a min of $800 million.
It's a joke if he's right as they could build a new rectangular stadium for the WC plus upgrade AO for Footy and Cricket for that much if they use there brain.